Musa Nepal?

chrisltropical · 05-23-2007, 11:26 PM

What is your take on Musa Nepal?

Here's a description....

http://www.exo-center.com/Musa%20Nepal.htm

Just wondering what the banana experts have to say about this potentially new cold hardy banana?

51st state · 05-30-2007, 03:37 PM

I think you'll find its Ensete Glaucum, the key in the description they give is the fat trunk. got to be an ensete.

http://www.banana-tree.com/Product_D...t_ID~18984.cfm

the flying dutchman · 05-30-2007, 04:28 PM

In the dutch Text he uses the word Tuber instead Trunk.

bigdog · 05-30-2007, 06:29 PM

I have never heard of this species until your post. The banana in the picture is neither Ensete glaucum nor Ensete ventricosum, but rather a Musa. It's a beauty too! Seems as if Europe has more cold-hardy bananas available than the U.S.

the flying dutchman · 05-30-2007, 07:21 PM

I don't know but if you push the 'ORDER' button it has disappeared for me.

Ron

Steve in France · 05-30-2007, 08:43 PM

I don't know what it is , I thought it might be Musa sp 'Tibet' but it's not. I did find an old pic of Tibet in my garden , you can still get it from Roland of Tropical Centre in Holland.

Later
Steve

Dombo · 02-06-2008, 03:10 PM

Hello,

may be that Musa Nepal is the same as Musa sp. Yangtse.

here is a link to Musa Nepal:

Musa Nepal pictures from gardens photos on webshots

here are pics of my Musa sp. Yangtse I got from Tobias Spanner.

Some months later

the Musa sp. Yangtse is very seldom, and the problem is, that the most trated Yangtses are other Musas.

bigdog · 02-06-2008, 11:14 PM

Dombo, I think that your Musa sp. 'Yangtse' is a form of Musa itinerans, but I'm not sure which one. The leaf bases are right, the petiole wings look similar, the midrib is the right color also. Not much to go on really, just a guess. Can't tell much about the Musa 'Nepal'. Nice-looking plant though! Wish these would accidentally (or purposely) find their way over to the US.

Dombo · 02-07-2008, 07:00 AM

Hello Frank,

I'm sure that mine is not an itinerans variety.
The growth is different from the itinerans.
Tobias Spanner brought the Musa sp. Yangtse from Yunan to germany.
His import (about 15 years ago) seemed to be the only entrance of this species to europe.
Seeds are not available.
This is the reason, why this plant is so rare.
My plant was a sucker of the plant that Tobias Spanner imported.
It seems, that all Musas with the name sp.Tibet and Nepal are the same as Musa sp. Yangtse.

You get the plants with the names sp. Tibet and Nepal much oftener.
So it suggests itself, that the Yangtse was tissue cultured some years ago and offered with new names by other salesmen,
... but this is anyone's guess!

Tropicallvr · 02-07-2008, 10:44 AM

I contacted that seller of Musa Nepal about 6 months ago. He was asking $45, and would only do a bank transfer of funds, and it would have costed me $50 for the transfer, so I decided to pass. I think it's probably something special, and wouldn't mind ordering sometime in the future.
Oliver- Yours does appear similar, but the Nepal has alot more wax on the trunk.

Zac in NC · 02-07-2008, 05:32 PM

Very interesting. I imagine it could be pretty hardy too.

Zac

Dombo · 02-08-2008, 11:24 AM

Hello,

yes, it seems to be very hardy.
I want to plant it this year in my garden, then I can compare it with the cold hardiness of my outside cultivated Musa basjoo, Musa sikkimensis and Musa Orinoco.

tony palmer · 02-08-2008, 02:39 PM

I know on the continent Musa Yangtze and Tibet are said to be the same plant, although that is true , they are both Musa Balbisiana forms, they were collected in two totally different places, Musa Tibet was collected in the Quinghai Plateau Tibet by Jean-Luc Penninckx, and Musa Yangtze was collected by Martin Gibbons and Toby Spanner in the Yangtze river valley in China, as they were both collected at different altitudes and places , that could have an reflection on their hardiness.

Dombo · 02-08-2008, 03:20 PM

Hello Tony,

this is very interesting and thank you for this information.

bigdog · 02-08-2008, 11:09 PM

I would like to see somebody raise all three of them side-by-side and get them all to flower and fruit. Only then will we have a better idea of what they really are. I see a slight resemblance to Musa balbisiana, but I don't think that is what Oliver's banana is. I still think it looks like a Musa itinerans variety. There are 6 varieties of Musa itinerans, and not all of them have the long rhizomes. Some are moderate, loose clumpers.

tony palmer · 02-09-2008, 04:15 AM

Is there anyone else who thinks like me, the pic of M.nepal and the pic on webshots of M.tibet are the same plant but at different stages of growth, note the bamboo to the right and the ivy in the background on both pics, it isnt possible that the pic. of M.nepal is an Ensete because they dont clump like that, but the desciption is that of an Ensete, all very confusing.
Frank, i will ask Dr. Ge, he is an expert on bananas in southern yunnan, China, i know he has seen M.balbisiana sp.tibet in the wild and he may of seen Musa yangtze.

Dombo · 02-09-2008, 11:39 AM

Hello,

flowers seem still to be unknown, and seeds as well.
The Musa Nepal in my link looks like my Yangtse, so they really seem to be the same species.
I have got the Musa itinerans, Musa itinerans "Indian Form" and the Musa itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis.
These itinerans varieties are without doubt different to my Yangtse.
Which itinerans varieties could be like my Yangtse, so I could try to compare it.
Dr. Michael Lorek from Tropengarten says <>
But I think, that no one really knows it, because there is nowhere to find a scientific based statement.

bigdog · 02-09-2008, 12:09 PM

Professor Markku Hakkinen has written an article on Musa itinerans, scheduled to appear in the next issue of Novon, a quarterly journal dedicated to botanical nomenclature.

I thought your Musa sp. 'Yangtse' looked like Musa itinerans 'Yunnan'. The M. itinerans varieties that I know about are var. xishuangbannaensis, var. guangdongensis (Burmese Blue), 'Yunnan', var. itinerans (which could be the same as 'India Form'). The only two that send out very long rhizomes are var. xishuangbannaensis and var. itinerans. The rest are moderate clumpers, according to Professor Hakkinen. I don't know where M. formosana fits into the complex, since it is a runner as well.

Tropicallvr · 02-09-2008, 01:36 PM

With all this talk of hardy Musa balbisiana, it's really hard to tell if those plants are actually Musa balbisiana. There are at least 6 different hardy Musa species(M.thompsonii, M.initerans, M.tibet, M.yantzee, M.daj giant, M.hardy German) that have the Musa balbisiana leaf trait(recurved leaf where it meets the petiole). Until they flower, leaf shape isn't enough to go on.
I have to agree with Frank, they look like different plants, and it seems to me to be a form of M. initerans also.

bigdog · 02-09-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tropicallvr

With all this talk of hardy Musa balbisiana, it's really hard to tell if those plants are actually Musa balbisiana. There are at least 6 different hardy Musa species(M.thompsonii, M.initerans, M.tibet, M.yantzee, M.daj giant, M.hardy German) that have the Musa balbisiana leaf trait(recurved leaf where it meets the petiole).

Don't forget Musa yunnanensis! It also has rounded leaf bases.

05-23-2007, 11:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
chrisltropical Junior Member chrisltropical's Photo Gallery Location: Clay, NY Find me on the map! Zone: 6 Name: Chris Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 73 BananaBucks : 78,523 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 46 Times Was Thanked 20 Times in 6 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Musa Nepal? What is your take on Musa Nepal? Here's a description.... http://www.exo-center.com/Musa%20Nepal.htm Just wondering what the banana experts have to say about this potentially new cold hardy banana? __________________ Banana Country

05-30-2007, 03:37 PM	#2 (permalink)
51st state many 'naners, little time 51st state's Photo Gallery Location: salisbury, UK Find me on the map! Zone: 8b ish Name: Kev Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 465 BananaBucks : 316,143 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 202 Times Was Thanked 259 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? I think you'll find its Ensete Glaucum, the key in the description they give is the fat trunk. got to be an ensete. http://www.banana-tree.com/Product_D...t_ID~18984.cfm __________________ a>

05-30-2007, 04:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
the flying dutchman the flying dutchman's Photo Gallery Location: HOLLAND Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Ron Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,031 BananaBucks : 112,673 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 48 Times Was Thanked 244 Times in 148 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 11 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? In the dutch Text he uses the word Tuber instead Trunk.

05-30-2007, 06:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,003 BananaBucks : 752,959 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,788 Times in 503 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? I have never heard of this species until your post. The banana in the picture is neither Ensete glaucum nor Ensete ventricosum, but rather a Musa. It's a beauty too! Seems as if Europe has more cold-hardy bananas available than the U.S.

05-30-2007, 07:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
the flying dutchman the flying dutchman's Photo Gallery Location: HOLLAND Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Ron Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,031 BananaBucks : 112,673 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 48 Times Was Thanked 244 Times in 148 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 11 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? I don't know but if you push the 'ORDER' button it has disappeared for me. Ron

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05-30-2007, 08:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Steve in France Senior Member Steve in France's Photo Gallery Location: Bethesda, MD Find me on the map! Zone: zone: it says 6 to 8 Name: Steve in France Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 381 BananaBucks : 111,992 Feedback: 12 / 93% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 52 Times in 28 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? I don't know what it is , I thought it might be Musa sp 'Tibet' but it's not. I did find an old pic of Tibet in my garden , you can still get it from Roland of Tropical Centre in Holland. Later Steve __________________ Always looking for a lost pup

02-06-2008, 03:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dombo Member Dombo's Photo Gallery Location: Franconia (Germany) Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Name: Oliver Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 115 BananaBucks : 12,473 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Hello, may be that Musa Nepal is the same as Musa sp. Yangtse. here is a link to Musa Nepal: Musa Nepal pictures from gardens photos on webshots here are pics of my Musa sp. Yangtse I got from Tobias Spanner. Some months later the Musa sp. Yangtse is very seldom, and the problem is, that the most trated Yangtses are other Musas. __________________ Greetings Olli Last edited by Dombo : 02-06-2008 at 03:33 PM.

02-06-2008, 11:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,003 BananaBucks : 752,959 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,788 Times in 503 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Dombo, I think that your Musa sp. 'Yangtse' is a form of Musa itinerans, but I'm not sure which one. The leaf bases are right, the petiole wings look similar, the midrib is the right color also. Not much to go on really, just a guess. Can't tell much about the Musa 'Nepal'. Nice-looking plant though! Wish these would accidentally (or purposely) find their way over to the US.

02-07-2008, 07:00 AM	#9 (permalink)
Dombo Member Dombo's Photo Gallery Location: Franconia (Germany) Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Name: Oliver Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 115 BananaBucks : 12,473 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Hello Frank, I'm sure that mine is not an itinerans variety. The growth is different from the itinerans. Tobias Spanner brought the Musa sp. Yangtse from Yunan to germany. His import (about 15 years ago) seemed to be the only entrance of this species to europe. Seeds are not available. This is the reason, why this plant is so rare. My plant was a sucker of the plant that Tobias Spanner imported. It seems, that all Musas with the name sp.Tibet and Nepal are the same as Musa sp. Yangtse. You get the plants with the names sp. Tibet and Nepal much oftener. So it suggests itself, that the Yangtse was tissue cultured some years ago and offered with new names by other salesmen, ... but this is anyone's guess! __________________ Greetings Olli

02-07-2008, 10:44 AM	#10 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 439,979 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? I contacted that seller of Musa Nepal about 6 months ago. He was asking $45, and would only do a bank transfer of funds, and it would have costed me $50 for the transfer, so I decided to pass. I think it's probably something special, and wouldn't mind ordering sometime in the future. Oliver- Yours does appear similar, but the Nepal has alot more wax on the trunk. Last edited by Tropicallvr : 02-07-2008 at 11:02 AM.

02-07-2008, 05:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
Zac in NC Plant Nerd Extrordinaire Location: Harlingen, Texas, Lower Rio Grande Valley Find me on the map! Zone: 10b/11a? Name: Zac Hill Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 265 BananaBucks : 24,480 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 9 Times Was Thanked 54 Times in 39 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 5 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Very interesting. I imagine it could be pretty hardy too. Zac

02-08-2008, 11:24 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dombo Member Dombo's Photo Gallery Location: Franconia (Germany) Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Name: Oliver Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 115 BananaBucks : 12,473 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Hello, yes, it seems to be very hardy. I want to plant it this year in my garden, then I can compare it with the cold hardiness of my outside cultivated Musa basjoo, Musa sikkimensis and Musa Orinoco. __________________ Greetings Olli

02-08-2008, 02:39 PM	#13 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 69,406 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? I know on the continent Musa Yangtze and Tibet are said to be the same plant, although that is true , they are both Musa Balbisiana forms, they were collected in two totally different places, Musa Tibet was collected in the Quinghai Plateau Tibet by Jean-Luc Penninckx, and Musa Yangtze was collected by Martin Gibbons and Toby Spanner in the Yangtze river valley in China, as they were both collected at different altitudes and places , that could have an reflection on their hardiness.

02-08-2008, 03:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dombo Member Dombo's Photo Gallery Location: Franconia (Germany) Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Name: Oliver Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 115 BananaBucks : 12,473 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Hello Tony, this is very interesting and thank you for this information. __________________ Greetings Olli

02-08-2008, 11:09 PM	#15 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,003 BananaBucks : 752,959 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,788 Times in 503 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? I would like to see somebody raise all three of them side-by-side and get them all to flower and fruit. Only then will we have a better idea of what they really are. I see a slight resemblance to Musa balbisiana, but I don't think that is what Oliver's banana is. I still think it looks like a Musa itinerans variety. There are 6 varieties of Musa itinerans, and not all of them have the long rhizomes. Some are moderate, loose clumpers.

02-09-2008, 04:15 AM	#16 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 69,406 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Is there anyone else who thinks like me, the pic of M.nepal and the pic on webshots of M.tibet are the same plant but at different stages of growth, note the bamboo to the right and the ivy in the background on both pics, it isnt possible that the pic. of M.nepal is an Ensete because they dont clump like that, but the desciption is that of an Ensete, all very confusing. Frank, i will ask Dr. Ge, he is an expert on bananas in southern yunnan, China, i know he has seen M.balbisiana sp.tibet in the wild and he may of seen Musa yangtze.

02-09-2008, 11:39 AM	#17 (permalink)
Dombo Member Dombo's Photo Gallery Location: Franconia (Germany) Find me on the map! Zone: 6b Name: Oliver Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 115 BananaBucks : 12,473 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Hello, flowers seem still to be unknown, and seeds as well. The Musa Nepal in my link looks like my Yangtse, so they really seem to be the same species. I have got the Musa itinerans, Musa itinerans "Indian Form" and the Musa itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis. These itinerans varieties are without doubt different to my Yangtse. Which itinerans varieties could be like my Yangtse, so I could try to compare it. Dr. Michael Lorek from Tropengarten says <> But I think, that no one really knows it, because there is nowhere to find a scientific based statement. __________________ Greetings Olli

02-09-2008, 12:09 PM	#18 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,003 BananaBucks : 752,959 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,788 Times in 503 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? Professor Markku Hakkinen has written an article on Musa itinerans, scheduled to appear in the next issue of Novon, a quarterly journal dedicated to botanical nomenclature. I thought your Musa sp. 'Yangtse' looked like Musa itinerans 'Yunnan'. The M. itinerans varieties that I know about are var. xishuangbannaensis, var. guangdongensis (Burmese Blue), 'Yunnan', var. itinerans (which could be the same as 'India Form'). The only two that send out very long rhizomes are var. xishuangbannaensis and var. itinerans. The rest are moderate clumpers, according to Professor Hakkinen. I don't know where M. formosana fits into the complex, since it is a runner as well.

02-09-2008, 01:36 PM	#19 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 439,979 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Musa Nepal? With all this talk of hardy Musa balbisiana, it's really hard to tell if those plants are actually Musa balbisiana. There are at least 6 different hardy Musa species(M.thompsonii, M.initerans, M.tibet, M.yantzee, M.daj giant, M.hardy German) that have the Musa balbisiana leaf trait(recurved leaf where it meets the petiole). Until they flower, leaf shape isn't enough to go on. I have to agree with Frank, they look like different plants, and it seems to me to be a form of M. initerans also.

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