Ensete Maurelii propagation?

51st state · 04-11-2007, 05:13 PM

I read the best way to do this (apart from tissue culture) is at the peak of growth (mid July maybe) to chop the top off close to the ground, cover it with sand and wait nervously for pups.

Has anyone actually tried it? or have any suggestions? Mine's gonna be big this year and I'd like to get a few pups on the go if poss.

Inoneear · 04-11-2007, 07:28 PM

Yes I have...It all started after a week of -7c in a pot.My basjoo and maurelii's trunks turned to mush, so I brought them inside and cut the trunks down to 8-10 inches...about two weeks later they began to push out the old frozen leaf.In January I decided to try propagatin the Maurelii so I cut it down to 2 inches above the soil.Cut it down the center and cut a v in it.I have pictures in my gallery.

MediaHound · 04-11-2007, 11:48 PM

..and here are a few of those photos:

More info about this banana is in the wiki

http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Ensete_ventricosum_'Maurelii'

mrbungalow · 04-12-2007, 07:10 AM

"V" for victory then!

Thanks for litterarly taking the sword in your hands and trying this theory out! I have allways been too chicken to try this with my ensetes, but this fall I will put one "under the knife"!

Erlend

Steve in France · 04-12-2007, 07:40 AM

Hi Guys here is another old post from me with pics of maurelii pups. What happens in Europe often is a maurelii will get the straggles and we cut the top down to try and free up the leaf growth again, this works about half the time for me. If cutting does not work then often the main stem is lost and what you get is a load of pups if you wait long enough. Anyway here is the old thread with pics of pups.
Ensete Ventricosum Maurelii follow up pics

Later
Steve

D'Andra · 04-12-2007, 06:54 PM

That is really neat! These may be dumb questions but, how do you seperate all the pups? Do you need to wait until they're larger or do you take a knife to them when young? Does this work with musa?

bencelest · 04-12-2007, 07:10 PM

Also I thought pups must have roots in order to survive.
Must you dig down deep and separate the main corm or devide the main corm?
As I am new to this.

Inoneear · 04-14-2007, 01:05 AM

I am also new to this....I was hoping someone would have information on this aswell, as I am going to attemp this part in the next week. I saw as the "callus"[ which at first I thought was a mushroom] ,was growing up from the left side of the V , had bumps-warty growths. From these ,out came the "pups" .On some of these pups you could see small roots running between these bumps, so I put potting mix onto the whole plant.Now because I did that ,dividing the pups is going to be a real chore...I might rince the dirt off before I divide them...any ideas?

Gabe15 · 04-14-2007, 01:15 AM

My advice would be to let them grow to about 1-2ft, then dig up the mass and quarter it and replant each section. Then continue that process as they grow and you should end up with many plants when you narrow it down to the nice vigorous shoots.

51st state · 04-14-2007, 03:07 AM

I saw a programme on TV a while back showing commercial Tulip culture in Holland. what they were doing was to get a bulb, quarter it or chop it into eighths vertically like you would a tomato. the 'segments' were then put on damp vermiculite in a warm dark propagation room. A few weeks later roots and sprouts and away you go.
It might work just the same with the Ensete. A good way to go from 1 to 8. the 'key' was to have the tiniest bit of rooting tissue on each segment

D'Andra · 04-15-2007, 12:19 PM

So has anyone tried this with a musa variety. It seems like it'd work just the same, but before I go all lumber jack...

AS in SA · 06-22-2007, 12:33 PM

Just curious - should the "stress" be induced before the plant flowers - or does it matter?

Lagniappe · 06-22-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D' Andra

So has anyone tried this with a musa variety. It seems like it'd work just the same, but before I go all lumber jack...

http://www.ceniap.gov.ve/ceniaphoy/a.../gmartinez.htm

D'Andra · 06-23-2007, 01:28 AM

Oye! No hace falta buscar Mas. Muchas Gracias Lagniappe!

I hope the above gets everyone ready to read that link. Really cool info in it though.

That does it! I'm taking the axe to a couple of plants.

Gabe15 · 06-23-2007, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AS in SA

Just curious - should the "stress" be induced before the plant flowers - or does it matter?

It needs to be before the plant has flowered, really before it has even begun to make to make the flower because the whole point of it is to damage the meristem but if it is flowering then the meristem would have already moved on and is in the infloresence.

BGreen · 06-23-2007, 08:13 AM

Very nice link indeed!:2190:
Thank you so much, Lagniappe!

Lagniappe · 06-23-2007, 09:03 AM

YVW ! I tried to post this site with google translater already in the link ....Guess it was too advanced for me .
You guys that understand the flux capacitors and such should post it in a seperate thread .
Pete

http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl.../gmartinez.htm

MediaHound · 06-23-2007, 02:01 PM

Great Scott!

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...Fgmartinez.htm

Digital magazine of the National Center of Farming Investigations of Venezuela

CENIAP TODAY
Not 4. January-April 2004

Technical manual for the Propagation of MusÃ¡ceas

Gustavo Martinez*, Omar Tremont ** and Julitt Hernandez ***

* CENIAP/INIA, Maracay
** UNEFM, Faculty of Agronomy, Choir
*** INIA/CIAE Yaracuy, San Felipe
gmartinez@inia.gov.ve

Introduction The cultures of banana, banana tree and topocho, pertaining to the family of the musÃ¡ceas, have significant an economic importance for the agro-alimentary economy of the country, and constitute a basic component in the diet of great part of the population. They have the singular and individual incapacity to produce viable seeds and single is possible the reproduction and perpetuaciÃ³n of the species through the vegetative or asexual propagation (agÃ¡micas plants).
Therefore, the "used seeds" for seedtime correspond to vegetative parts: sprouts, cormos or children who, once separated of the plant mother, can make their cycle of growth and production.
The selection of the propagation material is the first step to initiate commercial seedtime of the culture, and most of the producers uses "originating seeds" of deshije (necessary basic work and in these cultures) reason why does not represent a significant increase in the production costs and being considered as the plus I practice and simple at field level.
Nevertheless, it exists a high probability of dissemination of plagues or other harmful agents, within the plantation when not existing the cares and necessary fitosanitarias precautions (Nava, 1980; Tezenas, 1985; Sandoval ET to., 1991) between which they are possible to be mentioned the complex of nematodes (Radopholus similis, Helycotlenchus, Pratylenchus spp.), the weevil or picudo (Cosmopolites sordidus), the Marasmiellus fungi troyanus and Fusarium oxysporum sp. Cubense, bactaerias caratovora Erwinia and Pseudomonas solanacearum (Fenjves; Nava and Sosa; Ordosgoytty ET to.; YÃ©pez ET to., mentioned by Nava and Villarreal, 1980) and, finally, seeds of weeds, between which are species like corocillo (Cyperus diffusus), straw pelua (exaltata Rotiobollia), false Jonson (halepense Sorghum), gamelote (Panicum maximun) (Navas and Villarreal, 1980).
All of them can go with the seed, mainly in the conditions of the zone of production of the South of the Lake of Maracaibo, where the agriculturist seeds seeds without selection nor treatment of no type, which facilitates the dispersion of such harmful agents in the new plantations (Nava and Villarreal, 1980).
Most recommendable it is than the agriculturist selects the sowing material or "seed" from plants vigorous mothers, without visual signs of attacks of plagues and diseases, making cleaning and disinfection of same the selected children must be type sword, avoiding the use of those catalogued like orejones or water, which had that are lost their vitality for different reasons like desbalance nutricional, hydric stress, among others.
Similarly, it is possible to emphasize that generally these "seeds" present/display sizes and variable ages, that they originate different plants with vigor, causing differences marked at the time of maturation and harvests. It implies the necessity to use greater amount of wages and insumos, as well as adjustments in the activities related to the commercialization of the product.
One of the main factors of success in the commercial operation of these cultures is the obtaining and availability of "seeds" or material of propagation in sufficient amount and adapted quality, without it implies an increase disturbed in the costs; and less important it is not the establishment in field of homogenous plantations, with vigorous growth, that facilitate the workings of maintenance and uniform fruition.
The availability of a material of sowing in optimal conditions (desirable appearance, excellent fitosanitario aspect, among others) that facilitates the installation of production systems with uniform plants in its rate of physiological development, and that allows to make workings of harvest of the most efficient way, single has been possible through the use of vitroplantas (originating of biotechnologies as the weave culture in vitro), but to a relatively high cost, limiting the small and medium producer for its acquisition.
However, through an exhaustive selection of plants in the breeding ground stage, put under a strict control, also it has been possible to obtain this objective; for as the application of fitosanitarias measures is necessary, together with the practices normally used in the technified handling of the plantation, where those can be considered applied to the seeds: bare, chemical and physical treatments (heat), establishment of rank of size (small, medium, great) among others (Nava, 1980; Nava ET to., 1980).
Diverse methods and forms of propagation exist, with different variants (Adelaja, 1995; Alves and Oliveira, 1993; Belalcazar, 1991; Bonte ET to., 1995; Haddad ET to., 1994), but no of these systems of propagation, including those related to the biotechnology, totally guarantees the production of free materials of some virus and bacteria.
The objective of this article is to disclose the conceptual bases of the propagation of musÃ¡ceas and to give to know the foundations the used techniques more, as well as to characterize some alternatives that facilitate this work. It is indicated in addition, the use of organic installments like tool before seedtime in field, with the purpose of obtaining vigorous plants, of so large uniform and excellent quality, increasing the possibilities of managing the establishment of homogenous plantations and consequently to improve the yields. The information is based on obtained results in tests of field, the experiences of the producers and an extensive bibliographical revision.
Morphology of the musÃ¡ceas
From the taxonomic point of view the bananas, banana trees and topochos are located within the botanical family of the MusÃ¡ceas, I generate Musa, considered like perennial estolonÃ*feras grass, (Belalcazar, 1991; Simmonds, 1973); with absence of viable seeds in most of the cases, that they allow his sexual propagation. Due to this, its reproduction is strictly vegetative, through the use of children or sprouts; which implies that the obtaining of "seed" of quality is difficult and requires of greater time and effort.
The musÃ¡ceas are characterized to present/display two important stages during their development:

1) Stage of vegetative development: where the true stem is short and underground, with extremely short entrenudos, and small knots in the interception of the bases of the pecÃ*olos of the leaves, where the vegetative yolks are located that will give to origin to the sprouts or children. The rate of development of these is affected by the existing apical dominancia in the plant mother.
2) Stage of floral differentiation and production: where the vegetative development stops, with evident culmination of the emission to foliar, and physiological changes are originated that allow the rupture of the apical dominancia. The formation of floral structures begins and consequent formation of the cluster, with emergency or elongaciÃ³n of the underground stem that it will become aerial stem. In this stage greater development of the children or sprouts is observed.

Figure 1. Cross section of cormos of musÃ¡ceas

In both stages one defines the origin and conformation of the children, who could be used as replacement of the plant mother or like new units of production. In this sense, to include/understand better the principle of the propagation techniques it is necessary to know the basic structure cormo.
Figure 1 presents/displays the longitudinal section of cormo of banana, being appraised in the superior part how the bases of the cases of the leaves are arranged one on another one, forming a vault that covers and protects the central or apical yolk (meristemo), person in charge of the vegetative and productive activity of the plant mother.
In the interception point of each base of the cases, located in the knot, the lateral yolk is originated that can be physiologically active or latent, and its development will allow the emission of the children. The number of these yolks and the physiological state that present/display (activate or latent), will depend on the type of clone to use (banana, banana tree or topocho), size and age of cormo, among others.
Its development is controlled by a set of physiological processes, that it possibly includes regulating of the growth, able to inhibit the activation, development and growth of these yolks, while the apical yolk is in active growth, which have been denominated "effect of apical dominancia", and stops at the time of taking place the harvest (Belalcazar, 1991), or when the apical yolk is destroyed by the man or natural phenomena (floods, droughts), among others.
Systems of propagation
With base in the previous considerations, it is evident that the commercial propagation of the musÃ¡ceas obeys only to asexuales methods, existing systems or techniques that vary essentially in agreement with the type and disposition of infrastructure, costs and necessary technical qualification. Next a description of the used systems will be made more of simple way, taking in consideration that even though the mentioned technique is based on very simple foundations, will have to be taken into account the elementary norms from asepsis for its execution, with the purpose of as far as possible avoiding the contamination of other materials and new areas of sowing. In order to facilitate the compression and applicability of the systems, in Picture 1 a comparative summary of such appears, emphasizing the most important characteristics of each one.

Picture 1. - Qualitative characteristics of the different methods from propagation Characteristics

Sistema

Traditional Division cormos Division I appear Ablation Cormitos PPS Vitroplantas Disinfection of the material

absent

Medium to discharge

Medium to loss

Medium to discharge

Medium discharge

discharge

Risk dissemination plagues

stop

Medium to loss

Medium

Medium to loss

low

Material selection

little

discharge

Medium

Medium to discharge

discharge

Produced Material quality

low

discharge

Medium

discharge

High to medium

Very high

Relation cormo plants produced

1:1

1:6

1:4

1:3

1:4

1:100

Efficiency production

low

Medium to discharge

Medium

Medium to discharge

discharge

Cost Bs. sale Year 2003

150-200

500-600

200

150-200

850

Necessary basic infrastructure

none

stonecutters

none

stonecutters

none

Laboratories and conservatories

Lost risk plant

Medium to stop

Medium to loss

Medium

Medium to loss

low

Productive potential

Subject to selection

Medium discharge

medium

Subject to selection

stop

Required time

Immediate sowing

40-45 days

60 days

50 days

40 days

Greater of 2 months

Traditional propagation (Use of children or sprouts)
In Venezuela, most of the small producers they use a system of sowing characterized by the little one or no application of you practice cultural basic (irrigation, fertilization, control of weeds and plagues, among others), emphasizing the fact that the plants are under free growth, by absence of workings of deshije, with the consequent stop index of competition among them. A particular case is referred the South zone of the Lake of Maracaibo, where this condition prevails during the first cycle, executing after the harvest descepe and deshije (Nava, C. 2003. Personal communication. Faculty of AgronomÃ*a/LUZ).
A this reflected low profile of maintenance of the plantations, affecting directly the yield and its components, the quality of the end item, and the formation of sprouts or children available used to give continuity to the successive cycles of the culture or to extend the sowing surface.
Therefore, the material of propagation used in this system comes generally from the same plantation, and under the previous considerations that reflect conditions of extreme competition by water, light and nutrimentos between plants, they make evident that the development and growth of the future plants mothers are affected. Nevertheless, when making periodically the workings of deshije, equivalent to a "harvest of children", the quality of these seeds can be increased, which will have to be put under a previous selection, as it acquires knowledge in Figure 2.

Figure 2. Cormos (children) of different clones from musÃ¡ceas

The efficiency of the system, expressed through the rate of propagation of children, is low, being considered that the production of children in one hectare can provide "seed" to seed a surface between 1000 to 2500 m2 (Martinez ET to., 2000); in addition, the risk of dissemination of plagues and diseases (Sandoval ET exists to, 1991; Tezenas, 1985).
The older system of used propagation in musÃ¡ceas is considered him, closely related to the history of the same one, managing to go beyond a generation to another one. The disinfection is recommended before seedtime, as much of the tools of work like of the cormos, to ensure the success the practice.
Propagation by division of cormos (young and/or harvested Plants)
This technique has been used in different countries (Cordeiro and Two Saints, 1991; Crops Research Institute, 1995, Adaleja, 1995), and in Venezuela were applied for the first time by Hadad ET to. (1994) with remarkable success. As of this moment it has been adopted like alternative of fast and massive propagation, being able to be applied to originating cormos of young plants or just harvested.
For his application it is necessary to locate and to identify the present yolks in cormo, which will allow that the system is highly efficient. Next one describes of general form the steps to follow for his application (Haddad ET to, 1994):

1) Selection of the material: the use of healthy and apparently vigorous cormos is recommended; and the number of plants to generate will depend the same one as large as, reason why the small cormos are not recommended.
2) Cleaning and washing: to the selected cormos one removes the rest to them of earth with abundant water, and with a knife the roots are eliminated, parts of cormo that are affected by damages caused by plagues or microorganisms and the aerial portion (leaves and part of pseudostem), leaving only one portion that allows to hold it with the hand (Figure Ã¡).
3) Disinfection: a solution of water and chlorine at the rate of 5 is prepared mililiter by liter of water, in which the cormos submerge during three minutes for their disinfection. Of equal way, the used tools to make the cuts must be disinfected with chlorine before using it in the next cut. It is possible to emphasize that this process of disinfection is the plus practices and economic in the field, and the same one is considered like partisan, being able to use other chemical agents of ample phantom, but that would increase the operational costs and the extreme care in their manipulation.

Figure 3. Passages for the division of cormos of musÃ¡ceas

4) Exhibition of the yolks: with the knife the base of the most external leaf is cut until arriving at the following one (Figures 3b, 3c), being exposed a lateral yolk in a point in form of "V" formed by the interception of the bases of the leaves (Figure 3d). This procedure is made successively until visually the presence of yolks is demonstrated.
5) Court: orna time discovered all the possible yolks in cormo, is come to make cuts in sections, similar to the cut done on a pie (Figure Ã©), trying as far as possible to leave in each section a visible yolk (Figure 3f).
6) Sowing: the obtained sections will be seeded in stonecutters previously prepared or directly in plastic bags, treating as far as possible that the yolk is cover by earth or the used substrate, and that is near the surface. In this stage one will be due to provide to irrigation, avoiding the saturation and conditions of hydric stress. Esteem that the plants will be apt for seedtime in field in a minimum period of 45 days. The process of development and growth can conditional and be accelerated when applying a nitrogen source; nevertheless its excessive use can originate fototoxicidad.

Experiences in field indicate that it is possible to obtain an average of 7 plants, with homogenous development, generated from cormo, allowing in addition to make the selection of these based on the vigor (Martinez, G. 2002. Propagation by sections of cormo. Personal Communication. Maracay, CENIAP/INIA); nevertheless, Cordeiro and Two Saints (1991) indicate that the yield of plants by cormo is of 10 plants that can be transplanted to the field in a period of nine months.
In a test made with the banana tree clone ` Lacatan CarrasquerÃ³ (Musa AAA), is observed that to greater size of cormo, the number of obtained sections is increased, being able to consider the possible one I number of plants to produce, if we classified the cormos by classes of weights, before dividing them, as it is observed in the figure 4 (Tremont, Or. 2002. Results field test in conservatories Personal Communication. Choir, AgronomÃ*a.UNEFM Faculty).

3 (a)4-5 (ab)6-8 (b) ÃšmeroN of sections (divisions) by cormo

Figure 4. Relation between the number of obtained sections and weight of the cormos of musÃ¡ceas. Letters indicate significant differences between classes of sections (P=0.06: n=37; Kruskal-Wallis). Different letters indicate differences significant.

Propagation by division of buds (young and/or harvested plants)
This technique is considered like a variant of the previous system, and similarly they can be used cormos originating of young plants or just harvested. The methodology used by Adelaja (1995) indicates that cormo is divided in 4 to 8 portions (making sure that each section must have at least one yolk), that is seeded in stonecutters, which will have to emit new buds as of day 15. Then, these buds are divided each one in four parts, that are dealed with and seeded exactly like the set cormo original. In many cases, some of these multiple divided buds produce meristemas, that can separated and be seeded. Through this variant it is possible to be obtained but from 500 sprouts of single cormo in a period of eight months.
Propagation by ablation (rupture or elimination) of the central yolk
The "ablation of the central yolk" consists of eliminating the apical yolk with the purpose of "breaking" the apical dominancia to induce the activation of the lateral yolks and to produce greater number of children by cormo, as much in plants harvested as in young plants, that can remain in the field or taken to breeding ground (put under a previous selection) for better control (Figure 5).
I number of generated children will depend on several factors like the type of clone, physiological conditions of the plant, climatic conditions, among others. Experiences at level of field with the banana clone ` HartÃ³n enanÃ³ indicate that an average of five children apt for direct seedtime in field can be obtained, in a period of 3.5 months (Martinez ET to., 2000).
As much the division of cormos as the ablation is considered useful tools for the massive propagation, they do not require of special equipment or insumos that can get to increase the costs, and is of easy handling by the producer.

Figure 5. Ablation of the central yolk of cormos of musÃ¡ceas. (a) Court of the pseudostem; (b) Location center pseudostem; (c) To turn and to deepen the machete to eliminate the apical yolk; and (d) I appear of originated children of the activation of lateral yolks.
Propagation through the use of hijuelos or cormitos (variant of the ablation of central yolk)
The weight does not have to be smaller of 150 g, and to reduce the risk of scattering plagues to other areas it is recommended to pelar them before seedtime with the care to remove single the roots and the superficial layer of the crust, being treated to maintain the original conformation of the same one. The moment for being taken to field, will be determined by the presence of four true leaves and one height of 20 to 25 cm. Through this technique obtains a reduction in the costs of those producers that wish to renew or to increase their area of sowing, mainly those that are in areas difficult (Marcelino L. 2001. Investigation and Development for the technified handling of the banana (mail-and) Institute Farming Investigation of Panama).
Grisales (1994) indicates that the development of the plants mothers in healthy and vigorous field is stimulated exposing and earthing up cormo of plant. When beginning the buds, the sprouts of 3 to 5 cm of height, with weight average from 200 to 250 g, separate of these cormos and are seeded in plastic with rich ground in humus, being placed later in partial shade, applying once to 5 month nitrogen g by stock market and regularly watered bags. The plants can be transplanted after two months, when they have between three to four leaves developed.

Figure 6. Cormitos of musÃ¡ceas of different sizes seeded in stonecutters. Observe the dehydration in the apical part of cormo.
This variant is based on the previous system, and the experiences in field indicate that the originated buds are retired of the plant mother to the month of development, which are seeded in a stonecutter previously prepared or plastic bags, applying constant water provision without arriving at the saturation, and a nitrogen source; it reflects the care required for this variant (Figure 6). In the south of the Lake of Maracaibo some producers take yolks from the harvested cormos and they take them to breeding ground, to give obtained denominated formation to "plÃ¡ntulas in the property" (Nava, C. 2002. Com. Personnel. Maracaibo, Faculty of Agronomy, University of Zulia).
Propagation through "vitroplantas"
It is characterized to have the capacity to generate great amount of plants for seedtime in medium term, in relatively optimal fitosanitario state, in relation to some diseases. From an apex it is possible to obtain in the lapse of a year, hundreds of free plants of nematodes, fungi, and of some virus and bacteria in comparison with the traditional system (Sandoval ET al., 1991). At commercial level, meristemo or central yolk for the propagation in vitro is based on the exclusive use of.
This system presents/displays great advantage when it is desired to make interchange of plants (germoplasma) or sowing of musÃ¡ceas in relatively new areas. But the type, amount of insumos and infrastructure necessary to guarantee an aseptic atmosphere, increase the operative costs and, consequently, the costs of the product (plÃ¡ntulas) in relation to the systems of propagation before mentioned. It constitutes one of the main disadvantages for its amassed use, mainly between the small and medium producers (Grisales, 1994). Figure 7 shows plÃ¡ntulas of musÃ¡ceas in glass bottles with nutritious means, in conditions of light, temperature and controlled humidity.

Figure 7. Culture in vitro of clones of musÃ¡ceas

Propagation and simultaneous production (PPS)
The System of propagation and simultaneous production (PPS) was designed and validated experimentally in experimental field CENIAP-INIA (Martinez ET al., 2000) and simultaneously has like basic functions the propagation of materials of musÃ¡ceas and the production of fruits. One is based on: (1) establishment of an establishment of plants originating mothers of culture in vitro, with the purpose of diminishing to the minimum the possibility of incidence of plagues and diseases. Nava (2003) (personal Communication. Faculty of AgronomÃ*a/LUZ) suggests the material to use comes from the same agroecolÃ³gica zone; (2) handling of sowing HD, where half of the population is destined for the establishment of the culture and the other for the production of "seeds"; and (3) the induction of lateral buds with ablation of the central yolk.
Phase 1
Part of the premise of a sowing of banana tree with distance of commercial sowing of 2.2 xs 2.2 ms, where it is tried to cover 40 has; and they only exist available for the moment of 4132 seedtime of plÃ¡ntulas of culture in vitro, which 1.1 ms in squares will be seeded in the field to a distance of 1.1 xs, representing the initial establishment (surface 0.5 has).
Of this establishment, 1033 plants will be destined solely to commercial seedtime (2.2 xs 2,2m), being denominated plants ` X'; and the 3099 rest destined exclusively for the production of "seeds" (1.1 xs 1.1 ms), denominated ` Y' (Figure 8).
Phase 2
Four months after seedtime the aerial part is eliminated all the plants, and ablation of the central yolk was made. Experiences at field level indicate to us that the intermediate plants denominated ` Y' can generate 3 children like minimum, which will jointly be removed with the plant mother; whereas of the total of children generated by the denominated plants ` X', single 2 is removed later, being left in the site the children who left themselves as the plant mother and the replacement.
Phase 3
Five months after making the ablation, the "harvest of children" was carried out, equivalent to a total of 11363, where 2066 come from the plants ` X', and 9297 of the plants ` Y', that will be seeded in land previously prepared, managing itself to extend commercial seedtime; existing for this stage 0.5 it has in process of production of fruits and 1.4 it has to initiate the cycle of propagation and production synchronizes.
As of this moment the same procedure will be repeated, following the order of the phases before indicated until obtaining the propagation of children necessary to cover the fixed goal (40 have), that was carried out in I finish of 36 months, without staying out of the production of fruits for the sale; being able to make decisions as far as the total surface to seed or to continue with the propagation for commercial aims or sale of "seeds", under strict fitosanitario control (Picture 2).
The illustration of this exercise allows to make calculations based on the pre-established surface, and the required time to cover the goals will depend on the amount of existing plants at the time of initiating this system. Therefore, if an amount of plants exists superior to the used ones to make the previous exercise, the time necessary to cover the surface with 40 has will be smaller.

Figure 8. Distribution of the plants of musÃ¡ceas at field level, seeding to 1,1 xs 1.1m. the plants in the box will be removed when producing the children, being remaining to the commercial distance of 2,2 xs 2.2m.

This model allows the producer to extend the surface of sowing in staggered form, as well as to fit the installed production system. It is recommended for zones where the musÃ¡ceas are seeded for the first time, because part of the fact that the group of plants necessary to initiate this operation is plÃ¡ntulas of culture in vitro, which guarantees the handling of a material in optimal fitosanitario state.

Picture 2. Phases of the propagation system and production synchronize of musÃ¡ceas, indicating cronogram of actions, activities, number of harvested children (NH), seeded surface (SS) and accumulated surface in hectares (SA). Month Activity NH SS (it has) SA (it has) 0 Sowing
0,5 0,5 1 Ablation (a)
0,5 0,5 9 Harvest children (c) 11363 1,4 1,5 13 Ablation
1,4 1,5 18 C 32032 3,9 4,5 22 A 32032 3,9 4,5 27 C 89898 10,9 14,5 31 A 89898 10,9 14,5 36 C 249034 10,9 44,5

Use of organic sources like tool in the propagation of musÃ¡ceas
At the present time it exists an increasing world-wide demand by organic products of low cost and environmental risk, which mainly acquire excellent importance in grounds degraded by inadequate handlings and with low capacity of retention of nutrients.
The action of diverse mechanisms related to the organic matter, where the existing microorganisms contribute with the mineralizaciÃ³n and immobilization of nutrimentos, can be related to multiple biological processes in which compound roots and of the ground interact parallelly, giving origin to minerals in forms available for the plants. The this reflected great importance of these processes and the presence of the microorganisms in the ground; inasmuch as the increase of the amount and activity of such, is in direct relation with the incorporation of organic compounds to the ground (Fernandez, mentioned by Pineda, 1996).
The use of organic sources is indicated mainly as fertilizing destined to the ground or foliage of established plants and is not indicated like treatment preseeds for the preparation of propagation material. Nevertheless, Tremont and col, in the 2002 (Test with banana FHIA-21 and humus of lombriz in E.E. INIA Amazon. Published), when using humus of Californian red lombriz (foetida Eisenia) like immersion treatment during one hour of sections of cormo of banana FHIA-21, it did not observe that the medium altitude of the bud in the treated sections was significantly superior to the witness during all the dates of measurement (Figure 2 and 3), like the emission to foliar, with noticeable difference when registering itself for day 107 I number of leaves average of seven leaves whereas the witness was of five, being evident greater expressed vigor so much in the height of the plants like in the leaves.
Its application as tool within the technique of division of cormos would allow the obtaining of vigorous material of propagation in smaller time and greater amount, in comparison with the traditional systems.
Of equal way, Martinez ET to. (2000) they used whole cormos of banana tree "giant Pineo" (Musa AAA), to evaluate the effect of different times from immersion (60, 30 and 15 minutes) of the cormos, with different concentrations from humus liquid (100, 50 and 25%), on its growth and development; observing which in the treatment where the cormos were submerged in humus to the 100% during 60 minutes all the plants (number of observations) is grouped between six and eight cm of height. As it diminishes the time of immersion and concentration, the observations group different values from height, until arriving at the witness where the plants presented/displayed the greater differences in heights (Figure 9).

Figure 9. Evolution of the medium altitude (cm) and value of the fashion of the number of leaves of the buds of FHIA21 dealt with humus of red lombriz Californian (And foetida) and without humus during the 136 days of evaluation.

This factor must be considered for seedtime in field, because plants with different sizes, will originate desuniformes plantations, with the consequent economic implications for its handling and harvests.
The differences in height between the witness and the treatments with humus indicate that this solution can act like source of nutrimentos or in the activation of physiological processes that induce to a precocious brotaciÃ³n and greater growth (Martinez ET to, 2000; Martinez ET to, 2001).

Figure 10. Observations by class of height (cm) by treatment to the 15 days of evaluation of clones of giant Pineo with different concentrations and liquid time of immersion in humus.

The results obtained in both experiences very are correlated, being able to indicate that:

1) even though originating materials of propagation are different clones, and that they were dealt with different systems of propagation, its answer before the application of humus of Californian red lombriz, indicates that this solution is able to possibly accelerate the rate of growth and development of active yolks or in present state of latency in the same one;
2) the way of action of humus is not known, but on the base of the obtained results it is possible to be inferred that nonsingle it acts like source of nutrients, but in addition is possible that it has the capacity to activate physiological mechanisms that allow to the expression of the vigor of the plants in their Maxima expression.

Figure 11. Banana plants (FHIA-21) obtained by division of cormos with and without humus to the 40 days of sowing Figure 12. Answer of cormos of banana tree to humus liquid in different concentrations. The right plant witness, with little development, the left treated plant, it observes intense green color of the leaves and the vigor.

Final considerations
Given the nature of the plants of musÃ¡ceas, considered like estolonÃ*feras grass perennial, incapable to produce viable seeds that assure the perpetuaciÃ³n the species by the sexual route, the only one via of propagation, and that simultaneously allows seedtime, renovation and/or expansion of new areas, he is through the asexual reproduction with the use of sprouts or children.
Within the problematic one that presents/displays the cultures of banana and banana tree, it is evident the importance that plays the propagation materials ("seeds"), in the disposition and dispersion within the plantations founded and on the new plantations, of harmful agents to the culture (Nava, 1980).
The obtaining of the material of sowing by conventional methods (traditional), depends on the capacity that have these plants to produce the sprouts, of the ambient conditions, agronÃ³mico handling, among others, which delimited so much the amount and necessary time for its production. Inasmuch as, it is considered like a very slow process that require of the application of artifices like natural substances or processings (fitohormonas), or of inherent activities to the development of the plants (earths up, elimination of the yolk apical, among others) that stimulate the brotaciÃ³n, shortening the period of production of "seeds".
The selection of the propagation material is the first step to initiate commercial seedtime of these culture, and most of the producers usually uses "originating seeds" of deshije. This traditional form of propagation (through cormos) is characterized being the plus I practice and simple at field level, allowing that the value of the seed is accessible by the producers. Nevertheless, the conditions in which are the production systems, characterized to present/display problems of fertilization, hydric stress, absence of control of plagues and diseases, among others, condition the quality and amount of seed to produce (low efficiency in the speed of propagation, and potential stop of dissemination of plagues and diseases).
Geetha ET to., 1991 and Perez, 1992, indicates that the originated plants of these cormos generate minors yields that the plants mothers. Perez, 1992, I compare the traditional method of sowing of cormos against production systems of plants by means of cultures of vegetative apexes (in vitro) and the fast propagation (I appear vegetative), observing that the plants originated by the first method presented/displayed the smaller growth and production; which indicates that the use of vitroplantas guarantees increase in the production, but its cost limits its use the amassed level of small and medium producer.
Before this situation, but indicated it is the handling of plÃ¡ntulas by different methods from level of breeding grounds, where a suitable agronÃ³mico handling with emphasis in the fertilization is applied, intensifying its care that must be based on the basic norms of vegetal health in order to avoid the incidence or propagation of plagues, and the selection of the same ones must be cradle in the vigor and physical appearance.
For the installation of a breeding ground the use of originating plants of culture in vitro is recommended, and as of the moment that begins the same one will be able to be applied to the different systems of propagation before indicated, where they are possible to be included the use of organic sources like fertilizers or another alternative, that facilitate this activity (based on the previous considerations), with the aim to obtain discharge efficiency as far as the speed of propagation (time), I number of produced plants and quality (related to the optimal fitosanitario state and vigor), in such a way that the end item presents/displays an accessible cost at level of the producer, that unquestionably he will be inferior in relation to the plants of culture in vitro.
GRATEFULNESS

D'Andra · 06-23-2007, 02:25 PM

Awesome! Thanx! My brain was starting to hurt reading it before.

Lagniappe · 06-23-2007, 02:36 PM

Thanks Doc !

04-11-2007, 05:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
51st state many 'naners, little time 51st state's Photo Gallery Location: salisbury, UK Find me on the map! Zone: 8b ish Name: Kev Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 465 BananaBucks : 313,152 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 202 Times Was Thanked 259 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Ensete Maurelii propagation? I read the best way to do this (apart from tissue culture) is at the peak of growth (mid July maybe) to chop the top off close to the ground, cover it with sand and wait nervously for pups. Has anyone actually tried it? or have any suggestions? Mine's gonna be big this year and I'd like to get a few pups on the go if poss. __________________ a>

04-11-2007, 07:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
Inoneear Senior Member Inoneear's Photo Gallery Location: Delta B.C. Find me on the map! Zone: Sunset climate zone 4 Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 219 BananaBucks : 20,007 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 318 Times Was Thanked 38 Times in 15 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 223 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? Yes I have...It all started after a week of -7c in a pot.My basjoo and maurelii's trunks turned to mush, so I brought them inside and cut the trunks down to 8-10 inches...about two weeks later they began to push out the old frozen leaf.In January I decided to try propagatin the Maurelii so I cut it down to 2 inches above the soil.Cut it down the center and cut a v in it.I have pictures in my gallery.

04-11-2007, 11:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
MediaHound Tally-Man MediaHound's Photo Gallery Location: Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Jarred Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,261 BananaBucks : 2,027,326 Feedback: 66 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,856 Times Was Thanked 5,086 Times in 1,353 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2,086 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? ..and here are a few of those photos: More info about this banana is in the wiki http://www.bananas.org/wiki/Ensete_ventricosum_'Maurelii' __________________ Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

04-12-2007, 07:10 AM	#4 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 598 BananaBucks : 50,764 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 165 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? "V" for victory then! Thanks for litterarly taking the sword in your hands and trying this theory out! I have allways been too chicken to try this with my ensetes, but this fall I will put one "under the knife"! Erlend __________________

04-12-2007, 07:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
Steve in France Senior Member Steve in France's Photo Gallery Location: Bethesda, MD Find me on the map! Zone: zone: it says 6 to 8 Name: Steve in France Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 381 BananaBucks : 110,464 Feedback: 12 / 93% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 52 Times in 28 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? Hi Guys here is another old post from me with pics of maurelii pups. What happens in Europe often is a maurelii will get the straggles and we cut the top down to try and free up the leaf growth again, this works about half the time for me. If cutting does not work then often the main stem is lost and what you get is a load of pups if you wait long enough. Anyway here is the old thread with pics of pups. Ensete Ventricosum Maurelii follow up pics Later Steve __________________ Always looking for a lost pup

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04-12-2007, 06:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
D'Andra Senior Member D'Andra's Photo Gallery Location: Las Cruces, NM Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 224 BananaBucks : 4,319 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? That is really neat! These may be dumb questions but, how do you seperate all the pups? Do you need to wait until they're larger or do you take a knife to them when young? Does this work with musa? __________________ D'.

04-12-2007, 07:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
bencelest Banana Nut bencelest's Photo Gallery Location: California Zone 9 Zone: 9 Name: Benny Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,058 BananaBucks : 191,975 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 15 Times Was Thanked 1,415 Times in 653 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? Also I thought pups must have roots in order to survive. Must you dig down deep and separate the main corm or devide the main corm? As I am new to this. __________________ Banana Nut

04-14-2007, 01:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Inoneear Senior Member Inoneear's Photo Gallery Location: Delta B.C. Find me on the map! Zone: Sunset climate zone 4 Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 219 BananaBucks : 20,007 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 318 Times Was Thanked 38 Times in 15 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 223 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? I am also new to this....I was hoping someone would have information on this aswell, as I am going to attemp this part in the next week. I saw as the "callus"[ which at first I thought was a mushroom] ,was growing up from the left side of the V , had bumps-warty growths. From these ,out came the "pups" .On some of these pups you could see small roots running between these bumps, so I put potting mix onto the whole plant.Now because I did that ,dividing the pups is going to be a real chore...I might rince the dirt off before I divide them...any ideas?

04-14-2007, 01:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,347,869 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,241 Times in 2,200 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? My advice would be to let them grow to about 1-2ft, then dig up the mass and quarter it and replant each section. Then continue that process as they grow and you should end up with many plants when you narrow it down to the nice vigorous shoots. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

04-14-2007, 03:07 AM	#10 (permalink)
51st state many 'naners, little time 51st state's Photo Gallery Location: salisbury, UK Find me on the map! Zone: 8b ish Name: Kev Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 465 BananaBucks : 313,152 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 202 Times Was Thanked 259 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? I saw a programme on TV a while back showing commercial Tulip culture in Holland. what they were doing was to get a bulb, quarter it or chop it into eighths vertically like you would a tomato. the 'segments' were then put on damp vermiculite in a warm dark propagation room. A few weeks later roots and sprouts and away you go. It might work just the same with the Ensete. A good way to go from 1 to 8. the 'key' was to have the tiniest bit of rooting tissue on each segment __________________ a>

04-15-2007, 12:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
D'Andra Senior Member D'Andra's Photo Gallery Location: Las Cruces, NM Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 224 BananaBucks : 4,319 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? So has anyone tried this with a musa variety. It seems like it'd work just the same, but before I go all lumber jack... __________________ D'.

06-22-2007, 12:33 PM	#12 (permalink)
AS in SA Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 6 BananaBucks : 7,285 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3 Times Was Thanked 3 Times in 1 Post Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? Just curious - should the "stress" be induced before the plant flowers - or does it matter?

06-23-2007, 01:28 AM	#14 (permalink)
D'Andra Senior Member D'Andra's Photo Gallery Location: Las Cruces, NM Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 224 BananaBucks : 4,319 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? Oye! No hace falta buscar Mas. Muchas Gracias Lagniappe! I hope the above gets everyone ready to read that link. Really cool info in it though. That does it! I'm taking the axe to a couple of plants. __________________ D'.

06-23-2007, 08:13 AM	#16 (permalink)
BGreen Digger Extraordinaire BGreen's Photo Gallery Location: Kansas Find me on the map! Zone: Zone 5b/6a Name: Ben Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 296 BananaBucks : 117,145 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 19 Times Was Thanked 45 Times in 29 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? Very nice link indeed!:2190: Thank you so much, Lagniappe! __________________ Take care, BGreen

06-23-2007, 09:03 AM	#17 (permalink)
Lagniappe Lagniappe's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,111 BananaBucks : 249,840 Feedback: 22 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,378 Times Was Thanked 1,402 Times in 558 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 535 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? YVW ! I tried to post this site with google translater already in the link ....Guess it was too advanced for me . You guys that understand the flux capacitors and such should post it in a seperate thread . Pete http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl.../gmartinez.htm Last edited by Lagniappe : 06-23-2007 at 09:09 AM.

06-23-2007, 02:25 PM	#19 (permalink)
D'Andra Senior Member D'Andra's Photo Gallery Location: Las Cruces, NM Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 224 BananaBucks : 4,319 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? Awesome! Thanx! My brain was starting to hurt reading it before. __________________ D'.

06-23-2007, 02:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
Lagniappe Lagniappe's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,111 BananaBucks : 249,840 Feedback: 22 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,378 Times Was Thanked 1,402 Times in 558 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 535 Times	Re: Ensete Maurelii propagation? Thanks Doc !

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