Helen's Hybrid

PaulOdin · 10-09-2006, 03:21 PM

I've been trying to google information about this banana, w/out much luck, but for some reason I keep finding information on human/alien hybrids in a book by someone named Helen.
Has anyone gotten fruit from it? is it really edible, even w/ seeds? The pictures look pretty good! Err, meaning the plant, not the human/alien, etc.

Paul

Gard · 10-09-2006, 03:40 PM

I don't know anything about it, but I'm trying to germinate it now.

Gard

mrbungalow · 10-09-2006, 03:54 PM

My knowledge/observations:
- Hybrid between sikkimensis and "Musa Chini champa"
- Quick and easy from seed (RPS)
- Extreme vigour, sometimes sprouting several shoots from the seed
- Extremely fast growing, even at low temps.
- Nice colours: Dark green. Red undersides of leaf and powdery upper stems. Leaf shape is more like balbisiana than regular sikkimensis. Also, leaves are not as variegated as sikkimensis. Stems are thinner, giving an elegant appearance.
- No idea about fruit, but I would imagine there are a few seeds.
- No idea about overwintering. Will try a 5-footer outside this winter.

Erlend

Basjoofriend · 10-09-2006, 04:18 PM

I have also 3 plants of this hybrid. I also will test their hardiness next year, but I will overwinter them this winter in my greenhouse cool, nearly dry and frostfree.

It might be hardier than Orinoco and might be the hardiest fruit banana, currently.

But one of my specimens has also some striped leaves like Red Tiger! See also my gallery.

Best regards
Basjoofriend

mrbungalow · 10-10-2006, 12:25 AM

From what I understand the fruit is loaded with seeds, so it's probably like growing musa sikkimensis for fruit.

Gabe15 · 10-10-2006, 12:19 PM

When crossing landraces and species, it is important to note which was male and which was female, however this information is obviously not available for this hybrid. The reason being, that in some crosses using the same varieties, depending on which one was female and which was male can determine if parthenocarpic traits get passed down. It seems that if they have a reliable true to type seed source, then these plants are not parthenocarpic. I tried to find genetic information on 'Chini Champa' and it looks like it is a diploid (AB) landrace. Musa sikkimensis is also diploid (SS), so it is likely that this hybrid is also diploid.

Basjoofriend · 10-10-2006, 04:26 PM

It is possible, that Helen's hybrid has AS and BS seedlings.

Explaination:
S=sikkimensis
A=acuminata
B=balbisiana

The Helen's Hybrid has to triploidize, so ASS or BSS. Or one triploid sikkimensis (SSS). So that we get genuine hardy fruit bananas for climate with cold winters!

Best wishes
Basjoofriend

JoeReal · 10-10-2006, 05:09 PM

We've been eating mutants, and was wondering when it's our turn...

jeffreyp · 10-10-2006, 05:15 PM

it's called Necrotizing Fasciitis

mrbungalow · 10-11-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

It is possible, that Helen's hybrid has AS and BS seedlings.

Explaination:
S=sikkimensis
A=acuminata
B=balbisiana

The Helen's Hybrid has to triploidize, so ASS or BSS. Or one triploid sikkimensis (SSS). So that we get genuine hardy fruit bananas for climate with cold winters!

Interesting, Basjoofriend.
Maybe it could be this simple?
Maybe Balbisiana is dominant over Acuminata?
My observation is that all my Musa Helens have typical "balbisiana shaped" leaves.

Erlend

Gabe15 · 10-11-2006, 12:38 PM

I think basjoofriend is suggesting the need for triploid Helen's Hybrid, for cold hardy edibles. Personally if I could cross bananas so easily I would start with M. yunnanensis and M. 'Saba', anyone up for the challenge?

jeffreyp · 10-11-2006, 01:17 PM

I have a forest of Saba, unfortunately no yannanensis.

Basjoofriend · 10-11-2006, 04:34 PM

Yes, I suggested. I know one friend, who is biologist and genetic engineer. I requested him to triploidize Helen's hybrid and sikkimensis. I sent him two seedlings for his laboratory in Vienna/Austria some weeks ago.

Now he has a very good job, so that he will have enough money to buy a banana plantation in Brasil next year. I also will get a banana plantation in Brasil, will travel next year, one banana farmer offers me one part of his banana plantation.

So it might be possible to try to cross hardy bananas with fruit bananas.

+ :06: =

Best wishes
Basjoofriend

jeffreyp · 10-11-2006, 11:05 PM

basjoo friend..that was hilarious...

Taylor · 10-12-2006, 05:20 AM

HAHAHA Oh wow! That was unexpected!

eggo · 10-20-2006, 02:13 AM

"Has anyone gotten fruit from it? is it really edible, even w/ seeds?"

From the pictures I seen of the fruit. The seeds appears to center in the middle of the fruit. So from appearance it seems easier to eat when compared to other seeded bananas.

Mustang · 11-26-2006, 11:01 AM

I'm currently overwintering a small one in a (hopefully) frost-free greenhouse. And have got some seeds on the go, waiting to germinate.

This is one nana that I simply had to have ... given it's got my name on it.

bigdog · 01-23-2007, 10:02 PM

I just wanted to add to Erlend's statement of extreme vigor and fast growth. I sprouted one of these last Fall, and it is growing like mad right now! It is in a greenhouse, and should be of very good size by the time Spring rolls around (like several feet tall). I've been feeding it only every other week, and it looks great. I just stuck a big handful of Osmocote in the pot the other day when I repotted it. Can't wait to get this one in the ground!

bencelest · 01-24-2007, 08:49 AM

Bigdog:
I am still trying to findout the kind of fertilizer I wanted to use with my new bananas I received a few days ago. They are all in pots.
I would like to know the percent od NPK of your osmocote please. Is it also with micronutrients?

bigdog · 01-24-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bencelest

Bigdog: I would like to know the percent od NPK of your osmocote please. Is it also with micronutrients?

I don't know! It was some older stuff in the greenhouse in an unlabeled plastic container. I have been using some Peter's 20-20-20 on it also, every other week. I'll see if I can find out from my prof. what the ratio is on the Osmocote. He may still know.

10-09-2006, 03:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
PaulOdin Muddy handed ditch digger Location: Leesburg, FL Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 137 BananaBucks : 41,748 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Helen's Hybrid I've been trying to google information about this banana, w/out much luck, but for some reason I keep finding information on human/alien hybrids in a book by someone named Helen. Has anyone gotten fruit from it? is it really edible, even w/ seeds? The pictures look pretty good! Err, meaning the plant, not the human/alien, etc. Paul

10-09-2006, 03:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Gard Member Gard's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 90 BananaBucks : 59,911 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid I don't know anything about it, but I'm trying to germinate it now. Gard __________________

10-09-2006, 03:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 598 BananaBucks : 51,575 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 165 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid My knowledge/observations: - Hybrid between sikkimensis and "Musa Chini champa" - Quick and easy from seed (RPS) - Extreme vigour, sometimes sprouting several shoots from the seed - Extremely fast growing, even at low temps. - Nice colours: Dark green. Red undersides of leaf and powdery upper stems. Leaf shape is more like balbisiana than regular sikkimensis. Also, leaves are not as variegated as sikkimensis. Stems are thinner, giving an elegant appearance. - No idea about fruit, but I would imagine there are a few seeds. - No idea about overwintering. Will try a 5-footer outside this winter. Erlend __________________

10-09-2006, 04:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
Basjoofriend Member Basjoofriend's Photo Gallery Location: Lucianópolis-BRAZIL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: 01 Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 926 BananaBucks : 191,847 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 138 Times Was Thanked 266 Times in 123 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid I have also 3 plants of this hybrid. I also will test their hardiness next year, but I will overwinter them this winter in my greenhouse cool, nearly dry and frostfree. It might be hardier than Orinoco and might be the hardiest fruit banana, currently. But one of my specimens has also some striped leaves like Red Tiger! See also my gallery. Best regards Basjoofriend

10-10-2006, 12:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 598 BananaBucks : 51,575 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 165 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid From what I understand the fruit is loaded with seeds, so it's probably like growing musa sikkimensis for fruit. __________________

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10-10-2006, 12:19 PM	#6 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,349,474 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,241 Times in 2,200 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid When crossing landraces and species, it is important to note which was male and which was female, however this information is obviously not available for this hybrid. The reason being, that in some crosses using the same varieties, depending on which one was female and which was male can determine if parthenocarpic traits get passed down. It seems that if they have a reliable true to type seed source, then these plants are not parthenocarpic. I tried to find genetic information on 'Chini Champa' and it looks like it is a diploid (AB) landrace. Musa sikkimensis is also diploid (SS), so it is likely that this hybrid is also diploid. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

10-10-2006, 04:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
Basjoofriend Member Basjoofriend's Photo Gallery Location: Lucianópolis-BRAZIL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: 01 Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 926 BananaBucks : 191,847 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 138 Times Was Thanked 266 Times in 123 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid It is possible, that Helen's hybrid has AS and BS seedlings. Explaination: S=sikkimensis A=acuminata B=balbisiana The Helen's Hybrid has to triploidize, so ASS or BSS. Or one triploid sikkimensis (SSS). So that we get genuine hardy fruit bananas for climate with cold winters! Best wishes Basjoofriend

10-10-2006, 05:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
JoeReal Senior Member JoeReal's Photo Gallery Location: Davis, California USDA zone 9 Find me on the map! Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,034 BananaBucks : 415,452 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 108 Times Was Thanked 474 Times in 228 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 16 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid We've been eating mutants, and was wondering when it's our turn...

10-10-2006, 05:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
jeffreyp Zone 10, South Florida jeffreyp's Photo Gallery Location: Royal Palm Beach Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 870 BananaBucks : 143,047 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 30 Times Was Thanked 590 Times in 298 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid it's called Necrotizing Fasciitis

10-11-2006, 12:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,349,474 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,241 Times in 2,200 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid I think basjoofriend is suggesting the need for triploid Helen's Hybrid, for cold hardy edibles. Personally if I could cross bananas so easily I would start with M. yunnanensis and M. 'Saba', anyone up for the challenge? __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

10-11-2006, 01:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
jeffreyp Zone 10, South Florida jeffreyp's Photo Gallery Location: Royal Palm Beach Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 870 BananaBucks : 143,047 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 30 Times Was Thanked 590 Times in 298 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid I have a forest of Saba, unfortunately no yannanensis.

10-11-2006, 04:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
Basjoofriend Member Basjoofriend's Photo Gallery Location: Lucianópolis-BRAZIL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: 01 Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 926 BananaBucks : 191,847 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 138 Times Was Thanked 266 Times in 123 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid Yes, I suggested. I know one friend, who is biologist and genetic engineer. I requested him to triploidize Helen's hybrid and sikkimensis. I sent him two seedlings for his laboratory in Vienna/Austria some weeks ago. Now he has a very good job, so that he will have enough money to buy a banana plantation in Brasil next year. I also will get a banana plantation in Brasil, will travel next year, one banana farmer offers me one part of his banana plantation. So it might be possible to try to cross hardy bananas with fruit bananas. + :06: = Best wishes Basjoofriend

10-11-2006, 11:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
jeffreyp Zone 10, South Florida jeffreyp's Photo Gallery Location: Royal Palm Beach Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 870 BananaBucks : 143,047 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 30 Times Was Thanked 590 Times in 298 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid basjoo friend..that was hilarious...

10-12-2006, 05:20 AM	#15 (permalink)
Taylor Taylor 's Photo Gallery Location: VA Find me on the map! Zone: 8a Name: Taylor Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,084 BananaBucks : 217,080 Feedback: 15 / 100% Said "Thanks" 355 Times Was Thanked 662 Times in 334 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 283 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid HAHAHA Oh wow! That was unexpected!

10-20-2006, 02:13 AM	#16 (permalink)
eggo NAmerica PineappleRancher eggo's Photo Gallery Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 78 BananaBucks : 54,590 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid "Has anyone gotten fruit from it? is it really edible, even w/ seeds?" From the pictures I seen of the fruit. The seeds appears to center in the middle of the fruit. So from appearance it seems easier to eat when compared to other seeded bananas.

11-26-2006, 11:01 AM	#17 (permalink)
Mustang Getting there... Location: UK Find me on the map! Zone: 8-ish Name: Helen Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94 BananaBucks : 17,947 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid I'm currently overwintering a small one in a (hopefully) frost-free greenhouse. And have got some seeds on the go, waiting to germinate. This is one nana that I simply had to have ... given it's got my name on it.

01-23-2007, 10:02 PM	#18 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,003 BananaBucks : 748,275 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,788 Times in 503 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid I just wanted to add to Erlend's statement of extreme vigor and fast growth. I sprouted one of these last Fall, and it is growing like mad right now! It is in a greenhouse, and should be of very good size by the time Spring rolls around (like several feet tall). I've been feeding it only every other week, and it looks great. I just stuck a big handful of Osmocote in the pot the other day when I repotted it. Can't wait to get this one in the ground!

01-24-2007, 08:49 AM	#19 (permalink)
bencelest Banana Nut bencelest's Photo Gallery Location: California Zone 9 Zone: 9 Name: Benny Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,058 BananaBucks : 192,763 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 15 Times Was Thanked 1,415 Times in 653 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: Helen's Hybrid Bigdog: I am still trying to findout the kind of fertilizer I wanted to use with my new bananas I received a few days ago. They are all in pots. I would like to know the percent od NPK of your osmocote please. Is it also with micronutrients? __________________ Banana Nut

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