Taylor

Frank,
What are your lows? You are one whole zone lower than me...It'd be interesting to see the difference it would make. All the best-

bigdog

Taylor,

Knoxville's airport (TYS), our official recording station, has reached 11F for an absolute minimum low this year, and 12F on another occasion. I am at a higher elevation than TYS, and in a bit of a valley on the ridge, so I get cold-air drainage in addition to the colder temps from higher elevation. My absolute minimum low has been around 6F (twice), with a couple of 7F mornings also, but my thermometer is not in a good placement. I need to set it up correctly for more accurate temperature readings. I think I'm actually a couple degrees warmer than the temps I've recorded, but still a couple degrees colder than the airport. We are a long-term zone 7a here, really bordering on zone 7b. The last five winters, assuming we don't reach single digits this winter, have been zone 8a winters. This winter, we've had 2 days (non-consecutive) with a high below freezing, last winter was only one day, and the winter before that we had zero days with a high below freezing.

With bananas, a whole zone makes a huge difference! I mean, they grow Sabal palmettos in VA Beach Taylor, LOL! You guys can grow quite a bit more than I can here.

Zac in NC

Well, She is one of the top world Experts in Cornus(dogwoods). I even think she's originally from Yunnan province.

Zac

Taylor

Thanks for the info Frank. It is amazing how many Sabal Palmettos they haul in here that die due to neglect and poor timing. I've been trying to get my hands on one but to no avail...yet

Our low this year was 21 and that is probably as low was it will get. That is a solid 9a winter, same as last year.

51st state

Hi Frank

How did the 'Xis' end up after the winter?

I've just had another one arrive from Germany and wondered whether to plan on keeping it out or not

Kev

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bigdog

Hi Kev. I now believe that this is Musa itinerans var. itinerans, not var. xishuangbannaensis, due to one from the same clone (in a different state) flowering at just over ten feet tall.

However, it is growing like mad! I protected one pseudostem, and left three others unprotected, including the main one. The main one died back to the corm, but the other three all grew back from the same apical meristem. I started another thread about this somewhere. Fantastic, cold-hardy banana!!!!!

Chironex

Just one small correction to the pronunciation, the Xi is pronounced in a shorter tone like Shi with the corners of the mouth drawn back like you would when saying "shin". Good job otherwise Bigdog! (I am studying Chinese) Now I can see all of you trying to make this sound, it's fun to imagine the faces everyone is making!!!

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Scot

magicgreen

Yep Chironex, Thats what I was doing! hahahahahahahahahhahhahahahha!!

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(Started growing bananas July 2007)
(Zone 6)

Chironex

Markku Hakinen has recently released a paper about the Chinese M. itinerans entitled: "Musa itinerans (Musaceae) and Its Interspecific Taxa in China" This has excellent charts and photos to aid in identifying the specific variations between Musa itinerans var. itinerans; var. annamica, var, chinensis; var. guangdongensis; var. lechangensis and xishuangbannaensis. I am hopeful that the 'Gigantea' that I bought recently is in fact, Xishuangbannensis. I have two plants of it, so hopefully it will survive. It is noted in this research that xishuangbannensis is cold hardy and can tolerate seasonal frosts in the upper end of its range. (up to 1600 meters ASL) It is second in height only to ingens - growing to 12 m. Another interesting thing is that pups can be as far as 5 m. away from the mother plant. The corms can be a meter tall and half a meter wide to survive winter drought during the dry season, though it grows in moist, fertile soil much the same as ingens.

Here is a link to the article: http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/nov...o-18-01-50.pdf

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Scot

griphuz

I've had contact with Markku Hakinen and he thought xishuangbannaensis was not grown outside of Yunnan in culture yet...?
Kind regards,
Remko.

Chironex

That I don't know, but he sent the article to me. I have had to delete the attachement due to copyright concerns, but nevertheless we will have to see whether or not we actually have Xishuangbannaensis or just another form of M. itinerans.

For those of you who wish to read the article, it is in the free public domain at this link:
http://hua.huh.harvard.edu/china/nov...o-18-01-50.pdf

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Scot

griphuz

That's true.
So the only supposed source for this species is the 'Gigantea' seeds?
Are they still sold nowadays? (where did you get 'em?)
Kind regards,
Remko.

Chironex

I have a couple of banana plants that are supposed to be var. xishuangbannaensis, but it's too soon to say whether they are the 'real deal.' Once this is determined, they will be in culture, otherwise, they are simply another M. itinerans.

I also have a promised corm of Musa Tibet and another of Musa Yangtze coming this spring. (actually, the person I am getting it from refers to it as M. 'Yangtze Valley' so I don't know if they are one and the same or not.

The hard part about TC is deciding whether to grow out the plant and work from the pups, or just go right into TC from the get go.

Still want to get my hands on one of those 'India form' to put into culture.

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Scot

griphuz

I think you mean itinerans in stead of ventricosum

I have the 'indian form' and it produces pups that run down! (in stead of sideways)
I discovered that when I dug them out for overwintering in an unheated greenhouse. Unfortunately I damaged the pups doing this, no knowing it would grow in this fashion. Hopefully they'll make more pups, so I can get some more plants of this species.
I have the Musa 'Tibet' also, and at first I thought it was just a clone of basjoo, but now I can see some differences, so I guess it's really something else. Yangste I have never seen, but is on my wishlist ofcourse.

tony palmer

Hi Scot,

Yangtze and Tibet look to be the same Musa to me the Yangtze river valley were Yangtze was collected goes up into Tibet! There nice looking bananas though and I would love to know what species they are I don’t think they look like Itinerans though.

Sunshine seeds were selling (Indian form) that’s were mine came from, if you Email them in English they will reply in English.

Chironex

My bad, yes M. itinerans is what I meant. Too many things going on at once. Thanks.
Save one of those pups of India form for me when you have multiples of them.

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Scot

Chironex

Awesome! Thanks Tony, hope they grow true to type! Have you any experience with growing them from seed?

As to the Tibet and Yangtze Valley being the same, I will hopefully be able to say for certain next summer. Either way, they will be nice to have in the collection. Then, off to the lab they go. (pups I mean)

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Scot

tony palmer

Scot I grew my (Indian form) from seed I didn’t find them easy though 6 germinated but 4 died, the two I was left with are ok and growing nicely now but I think were I went wrong was I started them of in December when I should of waited till spring.

bigdog

I've noticed that some of the rhizomes run deeper than others on my Musa itinerans. I dug a couple of pups before our first frost, and discovered a rhizome that was much deeper than the one I was intending to cut. No telling how many feet away it was going to pop up! So far, my 'India Form' has sent up four pups, no more than about 3 feet away from the parent pseudostem. I had three seeds germinate, and lost the first one because it just wasn't vigorous at all. The other two seeds started shooting up immediately though. Seems that there were (are) a certain percentage of seeds in that batch that were very weak.

I think I can say with some confidence that 'Yangtze' doesn't really look like M. itinerans to me. My young plant doesn't remind me of itinerans at all. Can't wait to get it in the ground in the spring and see what it looks like in my yard!

Frank

BTW...in keeping in line with the title of this thread, my M. itinerans stems have experienced some very heavy frosts and record cold for this time of year. I've made it down to 12F so far already! Yikes. Knoxville airport (TYS) made it down to 15F, but I am in a cold hole. I haven't protected them yet, but do plan on it here in a few days. I'm hoping for a flower next year.

Chironex

I wonder if they developed this trait for cold hardiness?

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Scot