M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same

Tropicallvr · 03-25-2007, 04:50 PM

I ordered 30 or so Musa sp violet from jungle seeds, and two have sprouted. They had very dark red midribs apparent on the first leaf. The larger is on it's 8th leaf, and it is obvious that both my seedlings are the same plant as Musa initerans (form India, from sunshine seeds). The very dark red midrib bleeds into the veins that extend toward the edge of the leaves. I thought it maybe the same plant as Musa rubinea var vino tinto(nature products), but that one's red doesn't bleed quite as far into the leaf. I wonder if it is the same and they are trying to patent a species?
It is definatly my most amazing looking banana, and hopefully it will be slightly cold hardy. This one should be tissued cultured for the masses! Sorry no pic, but I'll try to link to the sunshine seeds pic since it looks the same.

Tropicallvr · 03-25-2007, 04:53 PM

http://www.shop.sunshine-seeds.de/im..._indiaform.jpg

Here's the pic.

Gabe15 · 03-25-2007, 05:12 PM

They are not supposed to be the same, if they are, then they sent you all the same seeds. Musa sp. violet is most likely M. flaviflora, M. itinerans is just that, and M. 'Vinto Tinto' is a hybrid between M. rubinea and M. yunnanensis, not a variety of Musa rubinea as they even incorrectly mention on their own website. I can't say what your plant is but the 3 you mentioned are not the same plants.

bigdog · 03-26-2007, 09:35 PM

Kyle, I got another M. itinerans 'India Form' to sprout last week, making two so far. This one looks vigorous and healthy, unlike my first one. The first one to sprout still hasn't even unfurled a leaf after over 3 weeks. It doesn't look like it will make it, so I was really glad that another one sprouted. I got some of the M. sp. 'Violet' also, from sunshine-seeds, but didn't think to take a picture of them for comparison with other seeds. Did you take pics of the two seeds? That could help. I still haven't sprouted one of the 'Violet' seeds yet.

Tropicallvr · 03-30-2007, 11:50 AM

I did take pics of both the seeds, so I guess I'll have to dig them up.
I also ordered Musa sp. violet from jungle seeds, and they don't offer the Musa initerans (form india) so they couldn't have been mixed up.
Looking at my plants the red is more pronounced than the pic from sunshine seeds, but they look very like the same plant. With these seed companies selling these seeds that come from multiple sources it is likely that some will get the same seed and sell it as two different species, just as botanical treasures did with Musa sp. big flower, and the Musa initerans xbananinsis, as well as Musa cheesmanii, and Musa nagesium by different companies. I guess time will tell.

Gabe15 · 03-30-2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tropicallvr

ust as botanical treasures did with Musa sp. big flower, and the Musa initerans xbananinsis

Just to keep things clear, M. sp. 'Big Flower' and M. itinerans var. xishuangbannensis (along with M. itinerans var. gigantea) are all the same plant to be published as Musa itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis

STEELVIPER · 03-31-2007, 09:50 PM

So many bananas so many names. LOL.

bigdog · 10-09-2007, 07:01 PM

I was checking around the other day on this site, and it is quite remarkable how similar their "Musa rubinea var. vino-tinto" is to Musa itinerans 'India Form'! Here's a pic on their site of the vino-tinto:

And a picture of my 'India Form':

Their vino-tinto:

My 'India Form':

Now, I know it's quite possible that they are completely unrelated. They do have some similarities though!

Tropicallvr · 10-09-2007, 07:41 PM

They originally said on their web site that it was a Rubinea X yunnaninsis hybrid, but now they changed it and said it was just created from multiple crosses. I'm sceptical when it comes to someone trying to sell something.

Like I mentioned before both the ones you mentioned look just like my Musa sp. 'Violet Flower'. But the one thing I noticed was when I had it inside and misted it almost everyday it looked great with lots of red, but then I put it outside in the extermely dry climate of Northern California(and stopped misting it) the red fadded alot. Probally a better looking banana in a humid summer climate.

Thanks for posting those awesome pics!

Tropicallvr · 10-16-2007, 05:14 PM

Here's Musa sp. 'Violet Flower'-

It was inside all winter until I took this picture, so definatly a different climate than outside, or where Franks growing his, or in China.
I just tried to find Musa sp. 'Violet Flower's picture on the Jungle seeds web site, but it's not there anymore, and they don't have it for sale(maybe I'll email for the picture to post). If we all end up getting a bloom like it showed on their site that would be awesome!

SteveW · 12-24-2007, 07:42 AM

Hi,
Just a quickie,is musa.sp violet the same as Musa violacea?
I've just ordered some of these and was wondering if they're the same.
Thanks
Steve

magicgreen · 12-24-2007, 09:06 AM

Beautiful nannas, guess my pocket is gonna get even more empty NOW!

Thanks to the" banana virus" that has inhabited my every cell!

Magicgreen

Tropicallvr · 12-24-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveW

Hi,
Just a quickie,is musa.sp violet the same as Musa violacea?
I've just ordered some of these and was wondering if they're the same.
Thanks
Steve

Nope, they're not the same plant. The Musa violacea is a really nice waxy hybrid, that seems to need a hot spot for best growth. It also seemed really cold hardy on one trial I did in a cold zone 8.

dablo93 · 12-24-2007, 12:34 PM

what's the difference between the Violacea and the Ornata?

Tropicallvr · 12-24-2007, 12:49 PM

The Violacea that I grew from seed seemed alot more waxy, and the leaves were more lance shaped. It never got to blooming size, so not sure about the flower. It's supposed to be a veluntina X flaviflora hybrid.

dablo93 · 12-24-2007, 01:25 PM

thnx for explanation

tony palmer · 12-24-2007, 05:52 PM

Two of my Musa Itinerans (Indian form) have just germinated

bigdog · 12-24-2007, 06:10 PM

Congrats, Tony! They are beauties when fairly young. As I have found out recently though, they do lose the red streaking in the leaves as they age. Hopefully they will make up for that by being really cold-hardy, lol!

tony palmer · 12-24-2007, 06:54 PM

Thanks Frank, it is a pitty they lose that beautiful colouration, but what the heck, i will enjoy it while it lasts, i suppose it would be too much to ask for them to be hardy, but you never know your look.

cheers Tony

03-25-2007, 04:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,438 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same I ordered 30 or so Musa sp violet from jungle seeds, and two have sprouted. They had very dark red midribs apparent on the first leaf. The larger is on it's 8th leaf, and it is obvious that both my seedlings are the same plant as Musa initerans (form India, from sunshine seeds). The very dark red midrib bleeds into the veins that extend toward the edge of the leaves. I thought it maybe the same plant as Musa rubinea var vino tinto(nature products), but that one's red doesn't bleed quite as far into the leaf. I wonder if it is the same and they are trying to patent a species? It is definatly my most amazing looking banana, and hopefully it will be slightly cold hardy. This one should be tissued cultured for the masses! Sorry no pic, but I'll try to link to the sunshine seeds pic since it looks the same.

03-25-2007, 04:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,438 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same http://www.shop.sunshine-seeds.de/im..._indiaform.jpg Here's the pic.

03-25-2007, 05:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,347,889 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,241 Times in 2,200 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same They are not supposed to be the same, if they are, then they sent you all the same seeds. Musa sp. violet is most likely M. flaviflora, M. itinerans is just that, and M. 'Vinto Tinto' is a hybrid between M. rubinea and M. yunnanensis, not a variety of Musa rubinea as they even incorrectly mention on their own website. I can't say what your plant is but the 3 you mentioned are not the same plants. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

03-26-2007, 09:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,002 BananaBucks : 745,335 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,787 Times in 502 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same Kyle, I got another M. itinerans 'India Form' to sprout last week, making two so far. This one looks vigorous and healthy, unlike my first one. The first one to sprout still hasn't even unfurled a leaf after over 3 weeks. It doesn't look like it will make it, so I was really glad that another one sprouted. I got some of the M. sp. 'Violet' also, from sunshine-seeds, but didn't think to take a picture of them for comparison with other seeds. Did you take pics of the two seeds? That could help. I still haven't sprouted one of the 'Violet' seeds yet.

03-30-2007, 11:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,438 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same I did take pics of both the seeds, so I guess I'll have to dig them up. I also ordered Musa sp. violet from jungle seeds, and they don't offer the Musa initerans (form india) so they couldn't have been mixed up. Looking at my plants the red is more pronounced than the pic from sunshine seeds, but they look very like the same plant. With these seed companies selling these seeds that come from multiple sources it is likely that some will get the same seed and sell it as two different species, just as botanical treasures did with Musa sp. big flower, and the Musa initerans xbananinsis, as well as Musa cheesmanii, and Musa nagesium by different companies. I guess time will tell.

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03-31-2007, 09:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
STEELVIPER Mechwarrior STEELVIPER's Photo Gallery Location: Riverside,CA Find me on the map! Zone: 9B Name: Mark Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 724 BananaBucks : 76,528 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 44 Times Was Thanked 102 Times in 62 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 169 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same So many bananas so many names. LOL. __________________

10-09-2007, 07:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,002 BananaBucks : 745,335 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,787 Times in 502 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same I was checking around the other day on this site, and it is quite remarkable how similar their "Musa rubinea var. vino-tinto" is to Musa itinerans 'India Form'! Here's a pic on their site of the vino-tinto: And a picture of my 'India Form': Their vino-tinto: My 'India Form': Now, I know it's quite possible that they are completely unrelated. They do have some similarities though!

10-09-2007, 07:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,438 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same They originally said on their web site that it was a Rubinea X yunnaninsis hybrid, but now they changed it and said it was just created from multiple crosses. I'm sceptical when it comes to someone trying to sell something. Like I mentioned before both the ones you mentioned look just like my Musa sp. 'Violet Flower'. But the one thing I noticed was when I had it inside and misted it almost everyday it looked great with lots of red, but then I put it outside in the extermely dry climate of Northern California(and stopped misting it) the red fadded alot. Probally a better looking banana in a humid summer climate. Thanks for posting those awesome pics!

10-16-2007, 05:14 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,438 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same Here's Musa sp. 'Violet Flower'- It was inside all winter until I took this picture, so definatly a different climate than outside, or where Franks growing his, or in China. I just tried to find Musa sp. 'Violet Flower's picture on the Jungle seeds web site, but it's not there anymore, and they don't have it for sale(maybe I'll email for the picture to post). If we all end up getting a bloom like it showed on their site that would be awesome! Last edited by Tropicallvr : 10-16-2007 at 05:20 PM.

12-24-2007, 07:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
SteveW SteveW's Photo Gallery Location: Rochester,UK Name: Steve Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 161 BananaBucks : 22,782 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 22 Times Was Thanked 36 Times in 30 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 2 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same Hi, Just a quickie,is musa.sp violet the same as Musa violacea? I've just ordered some of these and was wondering if they're the same. Thanks Steve

12-24-2007, 09:06 AM	#12 (permalink)
magicgreen magicgreen's Photo Gallery Location: cincinnati OH. Z6 Find me on the map! Zone: Z6 Name: Lynn Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 840 BananaBucks : 17,786 Feedback: 8 / 100% Said "Thanks" 422 Times Was Thanked 208 Times in 141 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 124 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same Beautiful nannas, guess my pocket is gonna get even more empty NOW! Thanks to the" banana virus" that has inhabited my every cell! Magicgreen __________________ (Started growing bananas July 2007) (Zone 6)

12-24-2007, 12:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
dablo93 dablo93 's Photo Gallery Location: Randstad North Find me on the map! Zone: Z8b-Z9a, wet cold winters and mild summers Name: daen Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 909 BananaBucks : 96,694 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 122 Times Was Thanked 262 Times in 166 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 159 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same what's the difference between the Violacea and the Ornata? __________________ -=

12-24-2007, 12:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,438 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same The Violacea that I grew from seed seemed alot more waxy, and the leaves were more lance shaped. It never got to blooming size, so not sure about the flower. It's supposed to be a veluntina X flaviflora hybrid.

12-24-2007, 01:25 PM	#16 (permalink)
dablo93 dablo93 's Photo Gallery Location: Randstad North Find me on the map! Zone: Z8b-Z9a, wet cold winters and mild summers Name: daen Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 909 BananaBucks : 96,694 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 122 Times Was Thanked 262 Times in 166 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 159 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same thnx for explanation __________________ -=

12-24-2007, 05:52 PM	#17 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 68,652 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same Two of my Musa Itinerans (Indian form) have just germinated

12-24-2007, 06:10 PM	#18 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,002 BananaBucks : 745,335 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,787 Times in 502 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same Congrats, Tony! They are beauties when fairly young. As I have found out recently though, they do lose the red streaking in the leaves as they age. Hopefully they will make up for that by being really cold-hardy, lol!

12-24-2007, 06:54 PM	#19 (permalink)
tony palmer Junior Member tony palmer's Photo Gallery Zone: UK Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 204 BananaBucks : 68,652 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 175 Times Was Thanked 237 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: M. rubinea var vino tinto, M.initerans(form India), M.sp violet- all the same Thanks Frank, it is a pitty they lose that beautiful colouration, but what the heck, i will enjoy it while it lasts, i suppose it would be too much to ask for them to be hardy, but you never know your look. cheers Tony

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