Musa balbisiana species???

tropicalkid · 09-12-2006, 10:42 AM

Hi:
Just wanted to get a bit more clarified with this species in particular.
When you're looking to buy one of these, apparently everyone seems to use the same photo of the bloom looking it from under it for their advertisements. The thing is that I have seen lots of Balbisiana, but with subspecies this and that....

How can I tell a rear balbisiana from a description?
Also what is the subspecies "King Kong"?

Please let me know.

Thanks,
Carlos

jeffreyp · 09-12-2006, 10:56 AM

I think king kong is just a made up name by the ebay'ers

what is in cultivation here is a a primative seeded type of plantain that grows (for me) up to 16-18 ft.

Gabe15 · 09-13-2006, 09:04 AM

There are many undescribed varieties of M. balbisiana, so far I believe only 2 are published, but I have seen at least 10 or so and there are many more. It is widespread and varied due in part to its fibre use and also it is used medicinally and cooked with. The ones you buy should all be normal balbisiana, one way to check is that balbisiana has rounded leaf bases where it intersects with the petiole, they usually even curve back upwards towards the leaf blades, acuminata however is either perpendicular or runs parallel with the petiole.

jeffreyp · 09-13-2006, 09:54 AM

agreed. What I have is the generic m. balbisiana of what's in clutivation here in the usa. It's generally very tall, and produces a very large inflorescence. The fruits are small and seeded with some pulp.

Tropicallvr · 09-13-2006, 06:58 PM

Gabe, what you are describing is exactly what two of my plants show....Musa thompsonii, and Musa initerans both from TC. So far I haven't noticed on my two seed grown balbisiana, but it maybe too soon. I'll take some pics of what you're describing.

tropicalkid · 09-14-2006, 12:12 AM

Got a pup for sale, or perhaps for just shipping fees?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyp

agreed. What I have is the generic m. balbisiana of what's in clutivation here in the usa. It's generally very tall, and produces a very large inflorescence. The fruits are small and seeded with some pulp.

Tropicallvr · 09-16-2006, 05:12 PM

Just checked one of my Mystery bananas that kinda looks like it could be balbisiana, and it has the leaf thing going on, and my largest seed grown M.balbisiana(sold as Japanese balbisiana) is now showing it on it's latest leaf.

jeffreyp · 09-16-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropicalkid

Got a pup for sale, or perhaps for just shipping fees?

I sell all my bananas/plantains for $20 each (excepy AEAE's) , and ship them out via priority mail. You can check out the selection at www.worldwideplants.com

mrbungalow · 10-02-2006, 07:33 AM

Does anyone know just how cold-hardy Musa Balbisiana could be? I have heard of unverified reports of it overwintering in Germany using the wrapping method!

Basjoofriend · 10-02-2006, 12:32 PM

Yes, in the Kölner Flora (Botanical Garden of Cologne) there are some old corms surviving the winters protected like Musa basjoo. The microclimate there is favourable and so that Musa basjoo and balbisana are surviving there, see also my page http://www.basjoo.de.vu, if you do understand German.

Only provenances from the coldest mountain areas might be hardier and suitable to try in Germany, but only older plants with firm and large and some woody corms and pups could survive outdoors protected like Musa basjoo.

Best wishes
Basjoofriend

Tropicallvr · 10-06-2006, 05:28 PM

Basjoofriend- Can you post some pics of the balbisiana? Do you know where it was sourced from?

Basjoofriend · 10-09-2006, 04:42 PM

Yes, here are some pics from the balbisiana in the Kölner Flora:

This is the pic from July 2001

In the left Musa basjoo and in the right Musa balbisiana, basjoo winterprotection for basjoo and balbsiana

The balbisana comes back in the spring 2001!

You see, that it's possible!

But I don't know exactly which provenance. But it might be a mountain provenance, provenances from the higher mountain altitudes are hardier.

Best wishes
Basjoofriend

mrbungalow · 10-10-2006, 10:45 AM

Wow, I am amazed! Musa balbisiana overwintering in Germany!

But one thing in the picture puzzles me: You say one of these plants is musa basjoo? They all look like musa balbisiana to me... Look at the way the petioles are arranged with the bottom of the leaf. None of these plants look anything like musa basjoo, simply by looking at the petioles/leaf ineraction.
The way the petioles/leaf are arranged, points in the direction of musa balbisiana.

Nice trachycarpus by the way.

Erlend

rane · 10-10-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe15

The ones you buy should all be normal balbisiana, one way to check is that balbisiana has rounded leaf bases where it intersects with the petiole, they usually even curve back upwards towards the leaf blades, acuminata however is either perpendicular or runs parallel with the petiole.

I don't understand this sentence (maybe I'm too stupid) Does someone have any good pictures or drawings showing the difference ?

Gabe15 · 10-10-2006, 04:06 PM

Attached is a drawing from my research notebook.

[/url]

Basjoofriend · 10-10-2006, 04:13 PM

Look at the petioles of Musa basjoo and balbisiana!!! There is an important difference. The petioles of Musa basjoo are winged and the petioles of Musa balbisiana not.

And the leaves of Musa basjoo are waved and the of Musa balbisana are smoothly.

This is the difference between the False Fiber Banana and the Genuine Fiber Banane!

Best wishes
Basjoofriend

rane · 10-11-2006, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe15

Attached is a drawing from my research notebook.

[/url]

Thanks a lot !
Does that also apply to young balbisiana plants ? Mine (grown from seed this summer) still have leaves that look more like the right drawing.

mrbungalow · 10-11-2006, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Thanks a lot !
Does that also apply to young balbisiana plants ? Mine (grown from seed this summer) still have leaves that look more like the right drawing.

No, this feature does not show in seedlings. As the plant reaches the juvenile stage, this trait becomes more pronounced.

Erlend

Tropicallvr · 10-13-2006, 12:13 PM

Thanks for the picture Basjoofriend.

Did anyone notice that the balbisiana has red/purple leaf backs, and the new shoots are purplish??
The picture looks of the German balbisiana looks EXACTLY like my Musa thompsonii, which also has the rounded leaf bases. But then again there maybe a lot of himilayan bananas with those features.

Dean W. · 07-17-2008, 04:54 PM

There's not much information on this one! I have a Musa balbisana 'gigantea' seedling I got from Issac. Anyone know more about it? Where is it from? How tall it gets?

09-12-2006, 10:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
tropicalkid Senior Member tropicalkid's Photo Gallery Location: Durham, North Carolina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 233 BananaBucks : 124,679 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Musa balbisiana species??? Hi: Just wanted to get a bit more clarified with this species in particular. When you're looking to buy one of these, apparently everyone seems to use the same photo of the bloom looking it from under it for their advertisements. The thing is that I have seen lots of Balbisiana, but with subspecies this and that.... How can I tell a rear balbisiana from a description? Also what is the subspecies "King Kong"? Please let me know. Thanks, Carlos

09-12-2006, 10:56 AM	#2 (permalink)
jeffreyp Zone 10, South Florida jeffreyp's Photo Gallery Location: Royal Palm Beach Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 870 BananaBucks : 142,566 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 30 Times Was Thanked 590 Times in 298 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? I think king kong is just a made up name by the ebay'ers what is in cultivation here is a a primative seeded type of plantain that grows (for me) up to 16-18 ft. Last edited by jeffreyp : 09-13-2006 at 09:55 AM.

09-13-2006, 09:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,347,900 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,241 Times in 2,200 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? There are many undescribed varieties of M. balbisiana, so far I believe only 2 are published, but I have seen at least 10 or so and there are many more. It is widespread and varied due in part to its fibre use and also it is used medicinally and cooked with. The ones you buy should all be normal balbisiana, one way to check is that balbisiana has rounded leaf bases where it intersects with the petiole, they usually even curve back upwards towards the leaf blades, acuminata however is either perpendicular or runs parallel with the petiole. __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

09-13-2006, 09:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
jeffreyp Zone 10, South Florida jeffreyp's Photo Gallery Location: Royal Palm Beach Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 870 BananaBucks : 142,566 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 30 Times Was Thanked 590 Times in 298 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 4 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? agreed. What I have is the generic m. balbisiana of what's in clutivation here in the usa. It's generally very tall, and produces a very large inflorescence. The fruits are small and seeded with some pulp.

09-13-2006, 06:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,452 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Gabe, what you are describing is exactly what two of my plants show....Musa thompsonii, and Musa initerans both from TC. So far I haven't noticed on my two seed grown balbisiana, but it maybe too soon. I'll take some pics of what you're describing.

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09-16-2006, 05:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,452 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Just checked one of my Mystery bananas that kinda looks like it could be balbisiana, and it has the leaf thing going on, and my largest seed grown M.balbisiana(sold as Japanese balbisiana) is now showing it on it's latest leaf.

10-02-2006, 07:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 598 BananaBucks : 50,783 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 165 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Does anyone know just how cold-hardy Musa Balbisiana could be? I have heard of unverified reports of it overwintering in Germany using the wrapping method! __________________

10-02-2006, 12:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
Basjoofriend Member Basjoofriend's Photo Gallery Location: Lucianópolis-BRAZIL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: 01 Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 926 BananaBucks : 191,191 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 138 Times Was Thanked 266 Times in 123 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Yes, in the Kölner Flora (Botanical Garden of Cologne) there are some old corms surviving the winters protected like Musa basjoo. The microclimate there is favourable and so that Musa basjoo and balbisana are surviving there, see also my page http://www.basjoo.de.vu, if you do understand German. Only provenances from the coldest mountain areas might be hardier and suitable to try in Germany, but only older plants with firm and large and some woody corms and pups could survive outdoors protected like Musa basjoo. Best wishes Basjoofriend

10-06-2006, 05:28 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,452 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Basjoofriend- Can you post some pics of the balbisiana? Do you know where it was sourced from?

10-09-2006, 04:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
Basjoofriend Member Basjoofriend's Photo Gallery Location: Lucianópolis-BRAZIL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: 01 Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 926 BananaBucks : 191,191 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 138 Times Was Thanked 266 Times in 123 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Yes, here are some pics from the balbisiana in the Kölner Flora: This is the pic from July 2001 In the left Musa basjoo and in the right Musa balbisiana, basjoo winterprotection for basjoo and balbsiana The balbisana comes back in the spring 2001! You see, that it's possible! But I don't know exactly which provenance. But it might be a mountain provenance, provenances from the higher mountain altitudes are hardier. Best wishes Basjoofriend

10-10-2006, 10:45 AM	#13 (permalink)
mrbungalow Freezing member mrbungalow's Photo Gallery Location: Bergen, Norway Find me on the map! Zone: 8 Name: Erlend Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 598 BananaBucks : 50,783 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 14 Times Was Thanked 165 Times in 78 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 3 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Wow, I am amazed! Musa balbisiana overwintering in Germany! But one thing in the picture puzzles me: You say one of these plants is musa basjoo? They all look like musa balbisiana to me... Look at the way the petioles are arranged with the bottom of the leaf. None of these plants look anything like musa basjoo, simply by looking at the petioles/leaf ineraction. The way the petioles/leaf are arranged, points in the direction of musa balbisiana. Nice trachycarpus by the way. Erlend __________________

10-10-2006, 04:06 PM	#15 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,347,900 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,241 Times in 2,200 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Attached is a drawing from my research notebook. [/url] __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

10-10-2006, 04:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
Basjoofriend Member Basjoofriend's Photo Gallery Location: Lucianópolis-BRAZIL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: 01 Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 926 BananaBucks : 191,191 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 138 Times Was Thanked 266 Times in 123 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Look at the petioles of Musa basjoo and balbisiana!!! There is an important difference. The petioles of Musa basjoo are winged and the petioles of Musa balbisiana not. And the leaves of Musa basjoo are waved and the of Musa balbisana are smoothly. This is the difference between the False Fiber Banana and the Genuine Fiber Banane! Best wishes Basjoofriend

10-13-2006, 12:13 PM	#19 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,452 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? Thanks for the picture Basjoofriend. Did anyone notice that the balbisiana has red/purple leaf backs, and the new shoots are purplish?? The picture looks of the German balbisiana looks EXACTLY like my Musa thompsonii, which also has the rounded leaf bases. But then again there maybe a lot of himilayan bananas with those features.

07-17-2008, 04:54 PM	#20 (permalink)
Dean W. Dean W.'s Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Park, TX Zone: 8b Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,279 BananaBucks : 239,809 Feedback: 13 / 100% Said "Thanks" 6,325 Times Was Thanked 2,130 Times in 972 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 300 Times	Re: Musa balbisiana species??? There's not much information on this one! I have a Musa balbisana 'gigantea' seedling I got from Issac. Anyone know more about it? Where is it from? How tall it gets? __________________ Last edited by Dean W. : 07-17-2008 at 04:54 PM. Reason: editing

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