what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum

bikoro child · 01-22-2008, 12:12 AM

Hi you all; they look so similar that it's not clear to me...

Tropicallvr · 01-24-2008, 10:45 AM

It's not very clear to me either. Here's some pics of Musa nagesium. I think Musa nagesium has alot of yellow, and wax. Yellow midrib, yellow petiole, and yellow flower.
M. nagesium pics from Chinese border. http://tag.inibap.org/files/Wild_spe...usa_nagensium/

This will probably only add to the confusion. Now different pics of Musa nagesium from plant grown in Kerala India, but I don't think it is correct(but sure would like to have one of these anyways)- http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dr...siumimages.htm

Now more pics from Burmese/India border from Trebrown seed suppliers.-
http://www.trebrown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=302

Looking back on your plant, I'm not sure anymore.
http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/niceben/photo-57766.html

Gabe15 · 01-24-2008, 09:15 PM

They are very different species. I think the confusion comes from the fact that many seed dealers label things incorrectly. Below are descriptions for each plant. The M. nagensium found in the wild is a different variety than what was originally seen years ago, the originally known form did not have yellow bracts.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drc/mcheesmani.htm

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drc/mnagensium.htm

bikoro child · 01-25-2008, 02:22 AM

okay so is this one cheesmanii?

Tropicallvr · 01-30-2008, 12:16 PM

I think so.

Mark Hall · 02-01-2008, 08:10 AM

I have just taken some pics of my Nagensium and I have to agree with david constantine. They are very waxy under the leaves almost white.

bigdog · 02-01-2008, 10:20 AM

Mark, what was your source for that plant? Great pictures!

I'm fairly certain that the banana labeled as Musa nagensium 'Floral Noir' is nothing more than Musa cheesmani. I'll have them growing side-by-side next year for somparison.

Mark Hall · 02-01-2008, 04:23 PM

Frank , I think the seeds came from Ebay in france by a seller called
Bananapalm292. He used to have lots of different types and they were a good price.

I should keep a record of where I get my seeds from really as I am often asked.

I have yet to find the true white seeds of Nagensium. Sunshine seeds list 3 types of Nagensium
http://www.shop.sunshine-seeds.de/

I have Cheesmanii too so I will have a look to see if there,s a difference.

I also have another Nagensium that has a darker midrib than the one in the previous pics.

bigdog · 02-01-2008, 07:41 PM

There's an article coming out in Novon in June, I believe, about Musa nagensium. Markku Hakkinen wrote it also. He is a busy guy!

51st state · 10-27-2008, 06:04 PM

this is driving me mad (well madder than usual anyway) Nag and cheese are so different. I'm off down the polytunnel for another look.

I just noticed that Flaviflora is now designated a synonym of Thomsonii. I'm really not sure about this either.

These re-designations do seem to fly in the face of some pretty compelling photographic evidence, not to mention many years of work by a number of very capable botanists. The taxonomic descriptions have some significant differences.
I need to get a load of photos uploaded to the wiki and then perhaps ask Mr Hakkinen to comment.

bigdog · 10-30-2008, 11:41 AM

Hey Kev, since I talked to you last I looked at all of mine. My Musa cheesamni has quite a bit of wax, maybe even more than the M. nagensium from europalms. The nagensium x from Kenibreed does look slightly different though. When I compared leaves, they look almost identical to me! I'll have to get some pics uploaded. They all have the same color pseudostem, the only real differences that I can tell are the amounts of wax, the midribs, and petiole color (slightly different).

51st state · 10-30-2008, 06:22 PM

not a great photo I know. anyone got another photo of Cheesmanii seeds?

51st state · 10-30-2008, 06:23 PM

sorry...please see my pics for the photos

01-22-2008, 12:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
bikoro child bikoro child's Photo Gallery Location: south-west of France Find me on the map! Zone: zone 8 Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,026 BananaBucks : 263,326 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 381 Times Was Thanked 578 Times in 208 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 56 Times	what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum Hi you all; they look so similar that it's not clear to me... __________________ Ivan

01-24-2008, 10:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,425 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum It's not very clear to me either. Here's some pics of Musa nagesium. I think Musa nagesium has alot of yellow, and wax. Yellow midrib, yellow petiole, and yellow flower. M. nagesium pics from Chinese border. http://tag.inibap.org/files/Wild_spe...usa_nagensium/ This will probably only add to the confusion. Now different pics of Musa nagesium from plant grown in Kerala India, but I don't think it is correct(but sure would like to have one of these anyways)- http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dr...siumimages.htm Now more pics from Burmese/India border from Trebrown seed suppliers.- http://www.trebrown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=302 Looking back on your plant, I'm not sure anymore. http://gardenbreizh.org/photos/niceben/photo-57766.html

01-24-2008, 09:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
Gabe15 Moderator Gabe15's Photo Gallery Location: Oahu, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 12 Name: Gabe Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,892 BananaBucks : 13,347,869 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1 Times Was Thanked 8,241 Times in 2,200 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 8 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum They are very different species. I think the confusion comes from the fact that many seed dealers label things incorrectly. Below are descriptions for each plant. The M. nagensium found in the wild is a different variety than what was originally seen years ago, the originally known form did not have yellow bracts. http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drc/mcheesmani.htm http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drc/mnagensium.htm __________________ Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

01-25-2008, 02:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
bikoro child bikoro child's Photo Gallery Location: south-west of France Find me on the map! Zone: zone 8 Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,026 BananaBucks : 263,326 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 381 Times Was Thanked 578 Times in 208 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 56 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum okay so is this one cheesmanii? __________________ Ivan

01-30-2008, 12:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tropicallvr Member Tropicallvr's Photo Gallery Name: Kyle Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032 BananaBucks : 435,425 Feedback: 6 / 100% Said "Thanks" 230 Times Was Thanked 414 Times in 163 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 14 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum I think so.

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02-01-2008, 10:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,002 BananaBucks : 745,306 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,787 Times in 502 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum Mark, what was your source for that plant? Great pictures! I'm fairly certain that the banana labeled as Musa nagensium 'Floral Noir' is nothing more than Musa cheesmani. I'll have them growing side-by-side next year for somparison.

02-01-2008, 07:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,002 BananaBucks : 745,306 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,787 Times in 502 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum There's an article coming out in Novon in June, I believe, about Musa nagensium. Markku Hakkinen wrote it also. He is a busy guy!

10-27-2008, 06:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
51st state many 'naners, little time 51st state's Photo Gallery Location: salisbury, UK Find me on the map! Zone: 8b ish Name: Kev Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 465 BananaBucks : 313,152 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 202 Times Was Thanked 259 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum this is driving me mad (well madder than usual anyway) Nag and cheese are so different. I'm off down the polytunnel for another look. I just noticed that Flaviflora is now designated a synonym of Thomsonii. I'm really not sure about this either. These re-designations do seem to fly in the face of some pretty compelling photographic evidence, not to mention many years of work by a number of very capable botanists. The taxonomic descriptions have some significant differences. I need to get a load of photos uploaded to the wiki and then perhaps ask Mr Hakkinen to comment. __________________ a>

10-30-2008, 11:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
bigdog ******* bigdog's Photo Gallery** Location: Gainesville, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8b Name: Frank Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,002 BananaBucks : 745,306 Feedback: 7 / 100% Said "Thanks" 213 Times Was Thanked 1,787 Times in 502 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 131 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum Hey Kev, since I talked to you last I looked at all of mine. My Musa cheesamni has quite a bit of wax, maybe even more than the M. nagensium from europalms. The nagensium x from Kenibreed does look slightly different though. When I compared leaves, they look almost identical to me! I'll have to get some pics uploaded. They all have the same color pseudostem, the only real differences that I can tell are the amounts of wax, the midribs, and petiole color (slightly different).

10-30-2008, 06:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
51st state many 'naners, little time 51st state's Photo Gallery Location: salisbury, UK Find me on the map! Zone: 8b ish Name: Kev Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 465 BananaBucks : 313,152 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 202 Times Was Thanked 259 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum not a great photo I know. anyone got another photo of Cheesmanii seeds? __________________ a>

10-30-2008, 06:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
51st state many 'naners, little time 51st state's Photo Gallery Location: salisbury, UK Find me on the map! Zone: 8b ish Name: Kev Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 465 BananaBucks : 313,152 Feedback: 3 / 100% Said "Thanks" 202 Times Was Thanked 259 Times in 126 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: what are the differences between Musa Cheesmanii and Musa Nagiensum sorry...please see my pics for the photos __________________ a>

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