aruzinsky

Do you know this because you performed an experiment with untreated controls? You have to do a controlled experiment because the problem is likely to go away on its own. If you don't do a controlled experiment, you might falsely conclude that the spray worked.

Many people falsely believe that putting eggshells at the base of their tomato plants cured BER because they didn't perform a controlled experiment. Had they performed a controlled experiment, they would know that the problem went away on its own.

edwmax

I live on and grew up on a farm. I see the benefits of foliar spraying every day. Farmers no longer apply fertilizer to the ground, but use foliar spraying every 2 weeks with herbicide, fungicides, insecticide, and fertilizer All at the same time.


There are plenty of University studies proving the benefits of Foliar spraying. In regards to banana, there are specific recommendations for using foliar spray to treat nutrient defectiveness. Just use google to find them.



So why don't YOU perform an experiment proving it doesn't work!

...

Oh, egg shells are a good source of usable calcium to the plant, but lack of calcium is not the only cause of BER in tomatoes. Calcium is the 'truck' to transport many other elements though the plant. So when calcium deficiency is suspected, you can bet several other elements are needed too. ... One can overload a plant with calcium too; which can cause a blockage of root uptake of other needed plant elements.

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aruzinsky

Because I never had bent leaf rolls on musa. I never said that foliar feeding of elements other than calcium doesn't work.

edwmax

I didn't say, you said that, BUT you are the one that stated I should do experiments to prove foliar feeding does work.
By using GOOGLE one can find proper university research papers by PHDs all paid for by millions of tax payer's dollars.

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aruzinsky

No, I said foiiar feeding of calcium doesn't work. And, I gave a research paper:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...03627909366887

"Foliar applied calcium is normally immobile, but can be induced to translocate by the saturation of adsorption sites in the leaf with divalent cations or by chelation. Best evidence shows that the calcium moves in a reverse xylem flow down water‐potential gradients."

That suggests that it can move down the xylem, most likely when upward xylem flow stops during rain or high humidity. Still, a 10 foot petiole xylem is a very long distance to "flow down water‐potential gradients," so I doubt it.

It's incumbent upon you to cite specific papers like I did. And, by that I mean about the efficacy of foliar feeding of calcium and nothing else.

edwmax

Your reference doesn't say that. ... YOU said "That is wrong because calcium does not travel down the phloem to the meristem." ... Your reference actually contradicts your statement as shown by your following quote. ... I think you misunderstand what is meant by the terms "mobile and immobile" of calcium in plants. Calcium is mobile in some plants and immobile in others such as Banana. Calcium is mobile in ALL plants from the roots to the parts of the plant it is used. But in some plants such as Banana calcium becomes immobile when it binds (fixes) in the plant cellular structure. That is it can not be reused in other parts of the plant.


You ignored my comment where I stated calcium didn't have to move down the meristem. It is directly applied where it is needed and absorbed by the leaf.

This is irrelevant to foliar spraying. The purpose of foliar spray is to by-pass the roots and meristem and apply nutrients directly where needed by the plant.

No it is not incumbent upon me to cite papers when my above comments were not based on them. Nor is it incumbent on me to do your leg work.

However, if you need further reading:

"The movement of calcium in plants" by B. C. Hanger

"Calcium movement in plants is unidirectional, moving up from the roots and generally routed to meristematic zones and young tissue. Once deposited in leaf tissue it is not recycled, even under calcium stress conditions. "
{ comment: this was what I basically stated in my posted comments and also above. ... And, Yes this is the paper YOU referenced. }


"Application Strategies for Banana"

"Foliar application is used to address an immediate nutritional need or where soil conditions restrict availability of specific nutrients. It is also important to target the underside of the leaf as well as the top surface.
... Fruit applications are rare and often impracticable due to the use of bunch covers, though there is some indication that calcium applied to the bunch can supplement existing reserves and improve fruit storage characteristics. "


"Selenium, zinc and calcium rich banana cultivation method "

(5) Foliar application: 10000-15000 fold diluted and selenium concentration and dilution of 0.3-0.5% Zn dilution and concentration of 0.5-1% calcium fertilizer dilution, growth period in banana leaves surface spray 2-6 times.

[0005] Step (5) of the fertilizer is applied at the seedling stage banana, vigorous growth period, the two results of the spray flowering and fruit enlargement.

"Crop Guide: Banana | Haifa Group"

Haifa Cal™ range of calcium nitrate products offers ideal source of plant-available calcium for all crops and growing methods. Haifa Cal products contain nitrogen in the form of nitrate (NO3-), which enriches plant nutrition and improves the efficiency of calcium uptake.
Haifa Cal™ products are suitable for highly-efficient applications by Nutrigation™ (fertigation) and foliar sprays, as well as soil applications.


Banana guide: fertilization recommendation


4.7 Foliar feeding

The plant roots readily absorb most mineral nutrients. However, many other plant organs are able to absorb nutrients in their ionic form from solutions. The extensive area of plant leaves makes them a natural candidate as a complementary feeding channel. Indeed, this method is now widespread in feeding management of many crops. The unique advantages that this method offers for banana growers are as follows:

• When the banana crop require plant nutrients, which are fixed and immobile in the soil.
• When deficiencies are detected at advanced stages of plant growth, and a quick correction is necessary.
• When root activity is hampered by external stresses such as low soil temperature, poor aeration, nematodes, rodents, or damage by machinery.
• When the effectiveness of direct soil application is limited due to weed infestation. As foliar application bypasses weed competition, this method ensures high availability to the target organs.
• When the roots are unable to provide the plant with certain nutrients at adequate rates, during specific critical stages of growth. This syndrome may take place even in fertile soils.

4.7.1 Foliar feeding practices

In Martinique, Philippines, Colombia and elsewhere it has become a prevailing practice to apply Haifa Bonus npK at a rate of 70 -100 g/mat (25-30% of the yearly potassium requirement) at the time of bunch initiation. The high availability of Haifa Bonus npK to the plant makes it the best fertilizer in meeting the plant’s increasing demand for nutrients at this critical stage of plant development that determines yield.

In Colombia, Mexico and elsewhere, foliar sprays during the vegetative growth and bunch development were found to be remarkably beneficial in increasing bunch weight, number of hands per bunch and number of fingers per hand (Tabs. 50, 51).

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aruzinsky

You have a nasty habit of conflating a few relevant with many irrelevant facts.

"calcium applied to the bunch" is not foliar feeding and therefore irrelevant.

"Once deposited in leaf tissue it is not recycled" is not foliar feeding and therefore irrelevant.

The only documents that you list that seem support your statement that foliar feeding of calcium works are not papers published in peer reviewed journals. In particular,

"Selenium, zinc and calcium rich banana cultivation method "

is a patent and people do not have to prove that a patent works to get one. It is my experience that most patents don't work.

Haifa Group is a business that lies for profit.

I am done speaking to you because I don't deserve the difficult task of finding relevancies in your prolific pile of irrelevancies. I suggest that you only speak to fools who deserve it.

edwmax

The calcium is applied by FOLIAR spray. It doen't just jump from the ground to the bunch.



This is a explanation of what happens to calcium after being deposited in the leaf tissue, whether it be by absorption from plant sap or by direrct FOLIAR spray application.



Even 'for profit' business promoting their methods and products cited relevant researcher's work to prove the method and/or products.


Further, this is a Forum of Home/Hobby Grower of Bananas where we share our knowledge gain by 'first hand' experience. ... BTW ... Current fertilizer programs by & for Banana Plantation is to apply approximately 25% at planting by soil application for the first 3 or 4 months; then by soil side dressing, fertigation, or foliar spray apply 40% of needed fertilizer for a 70% total of the plant requirement by the time of shooting; THEN by FOLIAR spray apply the next 30% of the plant requirements directly to the upper plant & Bunch. This includes ALL the NPK, Macros (calcium), and Minors



Further, WE ARE NOT a Peer REVIEW group of any research papers and more especially a near 40 year old research paper you referenced. ... That said paper was a study of calcium and only explained what happen to calcium inside the banana plant. That paper has nothing to do with Foliar spray applications as it was not part of that study. ... You have NO foundation to claim Foliar application of calcium does not work as YOU STATED. That was YOUR assumption or concussion.



You sir, are total BS!

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Botanical_Bryce

There are no conclusive peer reviewed studies, but evidence does suggest that foliar calcium spray does infact have a profound effect on forum arguing and may significantly contribute to it.

edwmax

Yes, but there are plenty of studies of Foliar spray benefits and field trials by product manufactures along with leaf analysis proving the the different elements are readily absorbed by the plants within a few hours vs days or weeks by plant roots. ... Bananas top & bottom of leaf sprayed, 100% absorption less than 30 hours.

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Tytaylor77

I will end this argument!

You spray calcium on the leaf! One or more of the following happens!!!
A. It is absorbed by the leaf!
.......1. It’s either used or stored!
.......2. Weather used or stored it will be good! If stored: When the leaf dies and turns into mulch/litter the calcium will still be available and used by the roots!
B. It drains down onto the ground and is used by the roots!

So no matter what! I can’t see how spraying, misting, pouring, scooping, dumping, or applying calcium can be bad! Just don’t overdo it!

Besides I would wager a lot of money that the problems of the leaf/roller leaf in the beginning was not a major/minor nutrient problem! 90% of these problems in my experience is due to a lot of heavy rain/watering or a little too much fertilizer! Just stop all water and fertilizer for a week or 2 and see if it straightens out before you try to add stuff!

The brown areas around the roller leaf I see all the time! When dew or rain gets into the pstem where the roller comes out and the sun hits it what does it do? It maginifies the sun! As it does this the drop of water causes the sun to burn this little patch of roller leaf!

This is combined with the fact the leaf may be and most likely is already weakened due to “fast growth” there is nothing wrong with fast growth! I grow for fruit! Not looks! When I’m pushing my plants and DONT see curved leafs and messed up rollers then that’s a sign to UP the fertilizer and water!

Put me to the test! Stop all water and fertilizer for 2 weeks (the current roller shows what happened 1-2 weeks ago) if you stop for 2 weeks you will get a normal pretty roller! Try me!

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150+ Varieties!!. See profile for list. Help me add more!

www.bananapups.com

beam2050

LOL...…………..wonder if it can make my thumb green?

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npk of wood ash 0/1/3 to 0/3/7

npk of banana leaf ash 1.75/0.75/0.5

venturabananas

The "don't overdo it" part is key, particularly if you have a boron deficiency that you have mistaken as a calcium deficiency. Excess calcium exacerbates boron deficiency, as I learned from personal experience.

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