venturabananas

You get a lot of bunches of bananas!

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This is my neighbor's "Namwah" (Pisang Awak) mat. She doesn't remove pups or fertilize. You can't see them all in this photo, but there's 13 bunches hanging in this single mat that started from one plant several years ago. Would she have bigger bananas if she removed pups? Probably. But she'll have a steady supply of delicious bananas for months instead of a few big bunches that ripen all at once. Since she's not selling them, having a steady stream of tasty bananas rather than a few overwhelming bonzanas of big fruit works just fine for her.

So think about what you want, and then decide what you're going to do about removing pups.

Note that this mat isn't surrounded by other tall plants, so it gets good sun on all sides. If it was shaded by other mats, you'd probably get a different result.

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Dalmatiansoap

Thats sweet sight! Plants are huge!

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Yuri Barros

Amazing.............

momoese

That what my HA and Jamaican Red stands used to look like. The problem for me was the wind breaking the fruiting plants every year and the stands getting close to lifting our new fence.

At some point she will have to remove the inner circle of plants because they will start growing above ground where they will not be able to support fruit bunches nor will they get adequate water or nutrients needed to make healthy plants and bunches.

PR-Giants

Actually she can solve all those potential problems by just shoveling some soil into the center.
My guess would be she probably is already doing something, even if it is only adding some yard waste to the center.
Having a compost pile in the center of a mat or a group of plants works great, feeds and maintains a proper moisture level all at the same time.

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momoese

I can see that method working in a more tropical area but where Mark lives it gets too cold and wet to compost and could end up turning into black slime.

cheson74

My Ice Cream matt was getting that way so i started removing pups. Some of the pups were 11+ feet tall. I wasnt concerned about having lots of bunches. Lack of space is always an issue in Hawaii.

Thanks for sharing.

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venturabananas

She hasn't lost any to wind, probably mainly for two reasons: these plants aren't all that tall (none over 11' of p-stem, despite what it looks like in the photo), and Pisang Awak varieties seem to be very well anchored.

They are starting to get higher in the middle, and the plants in the middle are getting smaller and making smaller bunches. But they are still producing, with no maintenance. I'm not sure how long this mat has been going, at least 4-5 years. It'll be interesting to see how the mat looks in a few more years.

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venturabananas

No, seriously, she isn't doing anything other than watering them. We have very heavy clay soil that doesn't get leached of nutrients or dry out easily. Eventually, this mat will have to run out of nutrients, but not yet.

The compost pile in the center of the mat would be good for the non-winter months here, but like Mitchel says, it would be probably be disaster during our cool, wet winters, when banana roots and corms tend to rot.

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PR-Giants

I can accept that cold and wet could rot the corm, but I'm more curious about the feeder roots.
The best medium for growing long healthy feeder roots in Puerto Rico is having enough black or brown slime "semi-composted material".
That is the main reason my plants have 20'-30' roots. I can say for certain that roots here grow much faster in slime than in soil.
They will not even rot after a year of being in standing water.

Have you ever actually seen feeder roots rotting?

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momoese

Quite few years back I though it would be a good idea to shred banana plants and spread them about 6 inches thick all through the banana garden in hopes it would keep the soil warm. Then we had quite a bit of rain and cold temps. Come early spring I decided to see what the soil looked like because the plants were not growing. It was black slime with no signs of life at all. All the cut down pseudo-stems and corms were rotting and smelled like rotting fish. It took me weeks to clear all the mess and get the soil somewhat dried out and back to normal. I continued to remove rot from plants well into spring. I won't be doing that again!

PR-Giants

Wow, I have been using that same technique for 15 years and it works great here.
My entire growing strategy is based on this technique and I have not been able to find anything that works better.
My goal is a minimum of 6" after being compacted, the crushed pseudostems also works perfectly.
It seems a little odd that the climate makes that much of a difference, but that explains quite a bit about the differences with water and nutrients and even why you guys seemed satisfied with 5'-10' feeder roots.

At least now you know you had a great idea, just the wrong climate.

Thanks for the info, Mitchel.

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LilRaverBoi

Thank you for posting this. There have been so many threads about whether or not to remove pups, and this does a great job of summing up one of the options.

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PR-Giants

Mitchel, I don't know the depth that you used or even if it will make a difference but I only have about 2"-3" of sand covering the material and it feels like you're walking on a mattress.
Posting a photo of my ground will not be of much use, but I do have photos of an above ground technique which is basically identical except for the fact it is vertical and not horizontal.
I have been able to grow the roots taller than the tops of the leaves, a little crazy but I was curious.

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momoese

I placed the shredded/chopped bananas on top of clay soil that had been amended with composted material for several years. Even after all that amending it's still hard packed clay just a few feet down so it can only handle just so much water, especially being on relatively flat ground where there is little runoff. Add some cold temps and you have a real mess on your hands!

As for feeder roots are you talking about the bright furry white ones just under the surface of the soil or compost?

venturabananas

I could see how Keith's approach might work great in the tropics, but it just doesn't translate to areas where the bananas are standing in cold, damp soil. Under those conditions, the plants really aren't growing at all and they are prone to fungal rot. I have definitely seen rotted roots and corms in my yard under those conditions, like Mitchel mentioned. That's one of the risks of growing a tropical plant in non-tropical conditions.

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venturabananas

I saw a funny example of this near my house. There's a huge mat of Musa balbisiana in a narrow, concrete enclosed space in a parking lot. It's maybe 15' x 4'. All of the plants in it are now at least 1-2' above ground level. But they're not falling over, for whatever reason.

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PR-Giants

Yes


It sounds like your corm rotted then the roots died, I've never seen roots rot before the corm starts to rot. The roots will thrive with high moisture.

Maybe the problem was as a simple as "you shredded/chopped" and I crushed.
Crushing will break all the water cells which allows the feeder roots to enter the fibers.
A crushed pseudostem will breakdown much quicker than a chopped one.

As for hard packed clay, my ground is like concrete. I don't dig, I drill a hole for the corm and build my soil above the existing surface level.
Most of my experimenting is done on slabs of concrete, if it works on concrete it will work in field.

It is such a perfect method for growing bananas, I'm disappointed it doesn't work on the mainland.

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PR-Giants

The corm and the feeder roots are two completely different parts and need to be treated differently.

I'd like to know if you think this set up would work in your climate.
It is simple and works great, I don't use it because it is ugly and my other methods work better. In drought conditions this method can be used successfully with very little water.

5 Gallon Bucket filled with fresh grass clippings and compacted with a potted plant.
As it compacts more clippings are added and it can be watered through the grass.
You should be able to clearly see the roots.
oct 23

oct 23


32 Gallon version
aug 25


oct 24


In a very short period of time these containers become completely filled with feeder roots.
If these containers were stacked 20'-30' tall, they would still become completely filled with roots.
After harvest, I will slice the contents of the containers and post photos of the roots.

By digging an open pit in the center of a group of plants and continually keeping it full of yard waste will achieved the same results and retain more moisture without the ugly view of a barrel.

It is difficult for me to understand why these techniques will not work in California.

I would be surprised if someone could get the roots to rot while maintaining a healthy corm.

This method allows the corm and feeder roots to be treated differently. The roots can enjoy a high moisture environment teeming with macro and micronutrients, while the corm can be located in a sandy well-drained environment.

In Puerto Rico these techniques will quickly establish a huge root base, which in turn will help the plant grow larger in less time and bloom more quickly.

It seems that banana growers stateside have such a short growing period that this method should hasten the time between planting and harvest.

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Olafhenny

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