damaclese

OK this is going to be a thread thats mostly about my observations on growing Bananas in high temperature climates IE. Desert condition specifically Las Vegas Nevada I'm growing at this point Williams hybrid and ice cream as well as ense ventricosum (in germination at this time) the Williams is 3 moths old and the temps have been in the low 80 for the first moth growth was rapid at Thea's temps putting approximately one new leaf per 3 days from that time forward temps have been in the high 90 to a 3 day period of 115 deg. fh the average humidity has been a consistent 20% growth stopped or was nil during the 115 days also the bananas seem to become bound up easily requiring the carefully removal of all old and dead leafs and the easing of the tops of the stocks were the leafs exist the older m stem
water consumptions has been 2 liters of water per plant per day sun exposer has been limited to 6 hr a day early morning full sun then shade rest of day
plants aper healthy but have sustained some sunburn approx. 30% in the early weeks of this project
the newest leafs are healthier and look to be thickening (probably in response to the harsh climate IE sun) the Williams has grown 4" and the two ice Cream have grown 6" the creams are approximately 1 moth old however exact age is unknown they aper to Handel the sun and heat better with far less burning and faster growth with leaf growth approximately 1 leaf ever 2 days
Williams leafs fold down during the high part of the day were as the Ice creams do not fold their leafs
all plants are on a supplement of vigro time release palm food 8-6-8 feed at 50% the recommended rate every 30 days all are planted in pots and have a sandy Lome type of soil with a 6.0 Ph water is local tap high in dissolved salts with a Ph of 5.2 at the time of testing well thats this months observation probably a bit boring but i think this is a some what unique histology and hopefully will lead to some conclusive programs for tropical growing in desert conditions and possibly some hybridization for Hardy more drought tolerant plants pleas feel free to ask questions and point out any thing good or bad that you think i should do or stop doing id really love for every one to help with this project
and if we do come up with any significant drought tolerant Bananas all defiantly be more then happy to provide pups in one way or the other to people as i can after all this is about growing for the love of Agro. and not for profit

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hydroid

Hi damaclese;
I live in zone 9 and was given some Williams bananas and they have been very hardy. I have Basjoo, Saba, Ornata, Red, and a few local hand me downs (Orinocos maybe?).
My ground must be perfect for those Williams because I already have fruit and only protected them by putting straw around the base of the plants this past winter. They are pupping like crazy. I think I read somewhere that there is an optimum growing temperature and I notice that when it gets really hot here I notice more growth during the night and early morning (ie when I get up).
I'm waiting on those Sabas to blast off, my 2 yr. olds are just starting to pass up my Orinocos, but not a single pup on them yet.
But for now, the Williams has been most impressive.
Your milage may vary, hope this helps.
hydroid

damaclese

defiantly i have observed that the plants do grow during the night iv not observed this trait in any other plants ever do you think its unique to bananas or is it that they grow so fast its just obvious and or is this a response to the heat of the day? or a naturally occurring trait

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hydroid

damaclese;
I forgot to say that my area is not arrid like yours, (just the opposite) as a matter of fact, I have learned to plant on my highest ground or next ditches to promote drainage of standing water. Please know that I'm far from a Banana Guru, only a simple grasshopper. This is my second year of growing Bananas and it has been great. Lots of great folks on this Forum, and very helpful.
My observations have been that my best growth was in Sept. and Oct. as the temps started cooling off.
It could be that Bananas are kinda like us, I don't like the cold or extreme heat, he he.
Your milage may vary
hydroid

lorax

Damaclese - I'd say it's a normal trait for the Zingiberales - my Cannas and Gingers also grow more at night.

Chironex

Hey Pauly, so glad you started this thread. We can reference it for our research. It stands to reason that if we can keep them growing, eventually, a sport might develop that will have more heat/humidity tolerant characteristics. The only question is how many years will we have to wait....could be years, could be a few generations. I have no idea.
Has anyone heard of genome research on bananas? What traits does Mysore have that make it most heat tolerant? Is there a banana that is more drought resistant? Is there a banana that prefers more alkaline soil types like we have in LV? Can bananas be grafted? Just some thoughts that might help in our research.
It might be a good idea to plant next to a large shade tree in LV to offer some protection and increase localized humidity by decreasing evaporation in the immediate area.
Thinking out loud here, but comments are welcomed.

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damaclese

hmm all have to observe my Cannes more closely as for my ginger after 3 moths they still haven't come up although i did a Little peaky and i know they are still viable it just the common ginger x Pacifica

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Chironex

I did more looking into the MGIS database and found that there is a variety called 'Cuba' TRY0126 that is heat, drought and wind tolerant. Don't know if it has edible fruit, but it has a lot of the qualities we are looking for. Here's the link: http://195.220.148.3:8013/MGIS_2/Tk.exe$Query?DataSource=MGIS_2&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.DROUGHT-OP==&V_STRESS_ABIOTIC_NUM.DROUGHT=2&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM-OP==&tab_accession_stress_abioLIST.IDNUM=TRY0126&Output=/MGIS_2/Evaluation_ABiotic.htm&ACCESSION.IDNUM-OP==&ACCESSION.IDNUM=TRY0126&MapRes=8

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damaclese

i checked it out i don't really understand their classifications

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damaclese

ya know an odd thing hapind this morning one of my ice cream bananas was all bound up and insid of the leaf ther was three other lefs growing and one is of a most paculur shape and size is this a posibal ganetic X

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Chironex

I'm not sure Pauly, could it be a flag leaf and flower on the way?
To access the database go to "Abiotic Stress". The select the characteristic that you want, such as High Temperature. I started at "low or no visible signof susceptibility" and then click on "submit query." It returns those bananas fitting in that category. If you don't get a hit, then go back and move up the scale to "low" or "low to intermediate" and so on. Once you find some hits, then you can add other characteristics to whittle down the list. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy to use.

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damaclese

it sorta looks like a flag leaf but this plants only mabe 3 or 4 moths old so how could that be and it dosnt have enufe leafs to saport fruit talk about spesas that fruit fast hehehe time will tell

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gadget

I will help your study.
I am growing many naners many different ways. Some in pots, some in afternoon shade, some in full sun. I also am using different water delivery systems, drip system, hand water, flood basin. I’ll start putting a time line together of my bananas and record how they do threw the summer.

gadget

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Chironex

Gadget, That's great! I know that you are perhaps even hotter there than Las Vegas, so this will really be a benefit for all.
I look forward to seeing your log and watching the progress.

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damaclese

hey guys one of my icecreams just poped out this hugh 14" long leaf its only 16" tall at this point i was truely amazed then i proptly left it out in the sun for an exsta 1hr and burnt part of the new leaf not bad maby 5% all get a pic soon promis
some one told me the icecreams are vary heat talirint thats why i got them and im starting to think mabe there right its 100deg fr today

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Velutina

Thats some great news

I've been reading up on palms that do well in vegas. There are people that try to grow species that are borderline for the zone, but are able to do it successfully using a few tricks. Some good tips I picked up which I think can be applied to bananas.

- Be sure to ammend the soil. Vegas soil can be high in boron, which can effect the palms (perhaps bananas too, not sure)

- Use drip irrigation on a timer so the soil around the plant remains moist.

- Have a west sun shield. Plant trees to the west of the plants. I guess the late afternoon/evening sun can be quite brutal on some plants.

- plant near a water feature such as a pond or pool to help with humidity.

- Use wind shields (ie trees) to block the hot, drying winds common in Vegas.

- and like already mentioned many times, plant in a location that gets partial sun to shade during the hottest parts of the days.

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Adam

damaclese

yes doing all that already its still kinda iffy they bananas are growing but they get burnt easily even in sun thats only hitting them from 6 until 11 which really isn't enough sun some times i go out and site them in the sun for 15 mints here and there to let them get more then i promptly put them back in the shade the do a bit better when they get more but not sit in it all day they are all still vary young and i can tell that they are starting to adapt by putting on thicker leafs
they Williams is doing the best but its about 2 months older then the Ice Creams. o well i new it was going to be a bit hard but I'm learning allot
I'm thinking about moving them to this spot i have thats on an east facing wall were theres a house thats only 25 ft away it only gets sun from 8 until 12 not allot its sorta one of those places that nothing grows that well in do to the limited sun exposure i wish i had a place with filtered shade but all have to artificially create that if its going to happen its so frustrating to live were the sun is so brutal you cant let it get on any thing for more then 15 mints after 12 even in AZ they don't have as bad a time its the altitude I'm at 3000 ish 2500 maybe i don't remember for sure I'm just going to have to work harder and build that GH OK now I'm just whining sorry but as i said I'm a bit frustrated no leaf makes it for more then a few days before its damaged in some way Burt riped or just broking off from the wind its mainly my back yard its like a wind tunnel they back of my house its on a hill with the downward Sid going away from the house its been cut and a 12ft retaining wall put in place to keep my yard from failing in to the back nabours but it raises the winds the nabour behind doesn't get a bit of wind
but that bad to as nothing will grow in his firnes of a back yard i know lets string shade cloth over the intier city lol

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damaclese

i forgot Micro farmer lives in the Central valley of ca he said that he doesn't have a bit of tribal his climate and ares are smaller but i find it hard to believe the only thing that i can tell that differs is the altitude so logic tells me they have to be in the shade so there another piece of the puzzle we have to not only develop heat tolerant plants but that like low humidity, intense sun, altitudes above 3000 ft and high frequent winds of 40mph oARGGGGGGGGGGGG

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Velutina

And the answer to every single problem we have thought of..... greenhouse. I'm convinced this is the way to be successful growing bananas in Las Vegas. Now to determine the best setup for that climate.

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Adam

Chironex

We shall overcome and prevail. Of course it might take us some time, but hey, it'll be fun. I am studying tissue culture now so that we can put some real meat into our efforts. It might take me awhile to get my arms around this subject, but I think it will benefit us in the long run.
By the way, I got a line on some Mysore and Monthan, plus some others that are supposedly heat and drought tolerant, edible bananas. When I get out there, I will have them shipped to me. Then we can get really put our heads together and find what works and what doesn't. Can't wait to begin!!!
Oh, and I am also looking into growing black bamboo as a wind/sunscreen. I have several seeds and just got some seedlings going, too.

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Scot