harveyc

I want to point out that some of the comments quoted from Jon's webebananas web site are quotes from individuals here at bananas.org and that some rather negative comments were made by one of our members who is now not active on the forum. I just don't want folks to read those comments as having some level of authority or to attribute them to Jon. Jon's site has links to the original sources.

I now have three Texas Star also and am also interested in comparing these in the years ahead.

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bencelest

Thank you Janan for your compliment. I only have one guy who helped me to do the concrete work. But this guy knows a lot about everything, concrete, carpentry, remodeling and yet he asked for the cheapest wage (rather I bargained for it but I end up rewarding him a lot of extra bonus for his fast working). I would guess about 4 weeks more or less. But I was with him all the time and I did a lot of dirty works also. But it is my design all the way.
Calif Gold is another species all alone. In terms of height and cold hardy and appearance are entirely different species I should say.
The Texas Star was posted here perhaps a year after I bought my Cali Gold so I was not interested at all getting one. I don't know much about it.
Regarding the Orinocos I bought them before the Calif Gold and I was able to pup them consistently.

I am having a problem posting the pictures of the cold hardiness of the Calif Gold so bear with me. It is now posted at the latest photo but I can not copy/paste it here.



Ah, it works.
So what I am saying is that the Calif gold is much hardier than any bananas I owned. The Calif Gold is the one on the left background picture seemingly unscathed throughout 2008 years' winter and the one on the right background was a dwarf Brazilian that was on top of the cold hardy variety. The leaves got browned but the pstem were green throughout. Both were left on the ground without protection. The pots of bananas were protected under the patio with roof cover.

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Banana Nut

Jananas Bananas

Thank you Harvey! I was hoping you would post. I hope nothing I said came across negative! That is not my intent at all!!! In the message I pulled my quote from, I could not tell who said what as it seems to run together. I do not know any one here personally like you do and do not want to step on any toes for sure! I made a trade with a super sweet lady, BlueSky, off GardenWeb - and she referred me to this website.

I am trying to distinguish identifiable characterics of the 'Texas Star' banana. I have come across several sources referring to the Dwarf Orinoco as also being called Texas Star and California Gold. I copied one of those as the start of this thread. I am trying to re-discover some Texas heritage.

Both the Texas Star and California Gold were originally purchased in Texas. There are stands of banana growing here all over the state - north to south, east to west. These are unmaintained, not growing in optimum controlled environments. The people that own the properties do not know of any "name" - they are just banana trees, or elephant palms, or just plain pains in the arse. They have been passed down from family to family or sold off to others and the linkage cut. They are very hardy (can't be killed off according to some) and they produce edible seedless fruit. I would like to determine if any of these tough little nuts are, in fact, the original Texas Star banana. Some claims say it has been known to survive a -16 degree winter. I am willing to drive to Witchita Falls if that is what I need to do. It has now become a quest!

That all being said, do you notice any distinguishing characteristics of your Texas Star? Similarities with your California Gold? Orinoco, dwarf or full size?

My sincerest apologies, if I have offended anyone, mis-quoted, or generally riled up the kind folks here. Not my intent. I am just trying to pick your brains. I just would like to preserve some Texas heritage if possible. Thanks! JaNan

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Jananas Bananas

harveyc

No, you haven't said anything negative or stepped on toes as far as I can tell. There are some negative comments quoted in Jon's site and they originated from an old thread here. That's all.

My Texas Star have been in my possession for four days and the leaves have been chopped, so it's impossible for me to comment on differences at this time. It will probably take me until 2011 to make a good comparison since it will take time to get plants of the same size, etc. Tony will probably be ahead of me, though we could very well have different plants being called Texas Star since Ty Ty has not been very good in sending out what people have ordered.

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chong

I am intrigued by your statement. If there is doubt as to what TTN is sending out, how do you know that the TX Star that you received is indeed a TX Star, since your source bought it from TTN?

Already, I can tell you that yours and Tony's are different plants called TX Star. FYI, the lady that Scot bought Tony's plant from did not buy it from TTN. She just "decided" that it has characteristics that are similar to TX Star from what she's read, and hence called it so.

I think the best source for a true TX Star is still TTN. But it might take a trip to Ty Ty, GA and a lot of tact and patience to get the prize. Or, a trip to Wichita Falls, TX and a lot patience. Or, a giant leap of faith - for some.

sunfish

Does this mean I have to buy another plant ?

chong

LOL! That's really your choice. There's a thread where I posted pictures of the plants from both sources. I'll try to post an update. Maybe you can twist Harvey's arm for one of his! I'd offer you one of mine, but out of the five that I ordered, only one survived. But it is doing very well, though. If I weren't expecting a shipment of plants from the Philippines, I would have re-ordered from them again this year. I needed to saved my funds for the anticipated shipment. Unfortunately, I've hit a snag (recently solved) with shipping agents. To make matters worse, most of the pups that were separated in February all had to be replanted because of the delay, and are now in fruit. Most of the pups that they are collecting recently have Bunchy Top Virus, so now the hold is on the pup availability.

I will plan on ordering TX Star again next year in the Spring, because ordering at this time may not give the plants enough time to store enough energy to survive the Winter. I ordered the plants I have about this same time last year, and only the one survived out of five. You won't have nay problems in you area, though.

harveyc

I'm intrigued that my comment intrigued you. Better than to have bored you, I guess.

My source bought his Texas Star from TTN many years ago and he thinks it's performed to the description they've given it, so I think he got lucky. I don't have the time or patience, nor willingness to spend the kind of money it would take to go to TTN in person.


Tony, if yours doesn't work out I can send you one of mine later on. Write me off list. Otherwise, I will probably plant two in the ground and keep one in the greenhouse so it can get larger before going into the ground next spring.

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Jananas Bananas

OK here is what I am going to try to do and I need some advice as to how to get started. I would like to submit some samples for genetic testing, or whatever needs to be done for postive identification. I need to know how much tissue needs to be sent and how to package it to be shipped so it does not deteriorate. I do not have a Califonia Gold, depending on the sample size, is anyone willing to submit a tissue sample(s) for this testing? I do have what I believe to be the original Texas Star (not from TTN), and I would submit several of these samples. I would also like to get TTN purchased Texas Star samples if possible, both old purchases and the plants they are shipping now. Suggestion? Advice? Any volunteers? I am not asking anyone to give up their plants. I don't believe the testing requires that, but if it does I will purchase these. I don't believe it has, but if this has already been done can someone steer me in the right direction? If it has been done results have not been published that I can find. I would also like to get permission to copy and use any pictures posted in this thread. Chong I know you said the picture you have was from the GardenWeb posting, but I would like to possibly use a couple of yours from your gallery. This may not be necessary - but just in case.

This is NOT, I repeat NOT for any kind of legal action. This is for positive identification of Musa grown in Texas to be submitted for historic preservation. This is very important to me and I believe for Texas.

Texas members, do any of you have examples? I will try to get someone at Texas A & M today that can let me know my next step. Thanks everyone. ~JaNan

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Jananas Bananas

Jananas Bananas

I guess from the silence that is a NO! That's OK no hard feelings. But in case anyone is interested, I have spoken to the Texas Department of Agriculture and Texas A & M. I'm getting a referral letter from the department of agriculture and have been invited to A & M by the head of the agriculture department to check out the studies they currently are working on with cold tolerant bananas and papayas. They do not protect them or dig them up for the winter - it has been a 4 year study so far. I will be able to find out what I need to do next with their advisement. They are very interested in the Texas heritage aspect, and I will be speaking with the horticulture specialist and head of that department next week (he was out of town this week). I was told he co-founded the Antique Rose Emporium. I am sure this will be a long drawn out process but it should be interesting and fun! ~JaNan

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Jananas Bananas

chong

JaNan,
I appreciate and admire your quest and resolve. As I said that I was intrigued with Havey's statement, when he put his faith in his source of TX Star, while at the same time questioning the reliability of TTN, I was wondering how you can come up with a true TX Star without getting them from TTN. They were the ones who named it as such. Just like how do you get a true CA Gold, outside of getting it from Jeff Earl or someone who got them from him. Any other source would not be "true" since the source is not from the one who named the variety.

On the other hand, if you just want to document the existence of a banana that has similar characteristics as the TX Star and/or the CA Gold for historical preservation reasons, then that is a different story, and possibly, a different banana, altogether. However, if you want to document the TX Star and the CA Gold varieties, you would need to get them from these original sources, or reliable/verifiable secondary sources who've obtained them from the original sources.

An example of this is that if you are looking for a "Super Dwarf Banana", which is a patented/coyrighted plant by Oglesby Plants International. The fact that it may be a Super Dwarf Cavendish, doesn't make every SDC exactly the same as the Super Dwarf Banana. I have seen various SDCs with mostly similar characteristics as the SDB, but they are not exactly the same. Just look at the "High Color Mini" from Agristarts and compare it with the SDB. While there are some similarities, I personally can identify some distinguishing differences between the two.

If the tissue that you are asking for from the plant for DNA identification will not cause the plant to die, I don't mind giving you whatever piece you need from my TX Stars from TTN and TX, and the CA Gold. My CA Gold source is from Jeff Earl and is verifiable. Because the TX Stars from my source in TX did not come from TTN, I cannot confirm that it is the same plant as the one from TTN, until I can compare their blossom and fruits. I'd be glad to help.

If I get the job that I am being considered in Dallas, TX, I intend to spend several weekends in Wichita Falls, TX and look for what might be the source(s) of the TX Star of TTN. Just wistful thinking. I may not get the job.

harveyc

Just to clarify, Chong. I think if you buy something from TTN, you might have a chance of 1 in 3 of getting what you wanted. If my source bought his five years ago from TTN and it fits the description, he was probably one of the lucky ones. Buying from him saves me the agony of wasting a couple of years with something unknown.

You know of my source; you posted his Texas Star photos here! Don't you remember???

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chong

While I understand your reasoning, esp. the wait, I think that the probability of getting the correct one must be better 1 in 3, from my own personal experience. Based my engineering sense, at this point, I think that the chances of getting a true TX Star from your source is still the same as getting it directly from TTN. What you have has only been proven to cold hardy. Your source has not been able to obtain fruit from the parent plant, so you still have to wait at least 18 months, if not a couple of years, before you can find out. The only difference between your situation and mine is that you have faith in your source and, in turn, your source's faith in TTN, while I have placed faith in TTN. Also, you do not have to deal with TTN. Well, I guess you're better off since you don't have to potentially deal with the aggravation.

Yes, I am very well aware of that. I was very happy that you got some plants from him. Now, we have something to compare to. I just hope that neither of us get lavender blooms like Joe did!

damaclese

wow its to bad that people have to do things that make it hard for others to get what they payed for i feel for you all now i I'm thinking is my CA Gold really a CA Gold? o well its a pretty Plant any way

Is this the part were i say Have Faith Grass Hopper

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Helping to foster understanding for the learning disabled

bencelest

I am sure mine is. I got mine from a well reputable source who used to sell bananas and a friend of Joe Real but I can't think of his name right now. Joe's CG came from him also.

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Banana Nut

chong

Benny,
The controversy that Harvey and I were talking about is our TX Star from Ty Ty Nursery, not CA Gold. We have no issues on the CG, I got my CA Gold from Joe and I think that Harvey got a large one from him also. Though I know that he's bought several from Jeff Earl directly.

Bob

Pauly, why don't you post a pic of yours when you get a chance? It might help.

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harveyc

Chong, I've only got one Cal Gold directly from Jeff Earl. My big Cal Gold from Joe bloomed at 9'1" so its ID is suspect. Jeff had some vandalism of his plot a few years ago and there were some mix-ups that year, but he did replace any erroneous plants that were brought to his attention, so it makes me wonder about this one I'm growing them side-by-side to help compare the two.

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chong

So, what did the fruit look and taste like?

harveyc

In short: it was stunted and not very tasty. I think it had about 15 fingers. It flower about two weeks after I transplanted it and what leaves were left were not in very good shape. Even though I wrapped them, the 35 mile trip was hard on the plant.

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