buffy

Well, my adventure with TianZi appears to be coming to a close. I have worked diligently and patiently for over a year to acquire healthy Musa itinerans var. xishuangbannensis corms from them without success. Dr. Margraf has been willing to allow his team in China to attempt the transaction, but through failures on their part and some they could not control, there has been little to show. They successfully delivered 4 tiny little corms that were in horrible condition last summer, but no amount of TLC would have saved them outside of a possible tissue culture experiment (I agreed not to do this in my initial requests with TianZi).

Here’s a basic chronology minus the 150+ emails:

1. Ordered corms April 14th 2008.
2. Wired money April 28th 2008 per TianZi instructions
3. First shipment is destroyed by U.S. Customs because they simply didn’t prepare phytosanitary certification.
4. Received corms on May 30th 2008 - 4 corms combined weighed less than 1 kilogram in total
5. All corms confirmed rotted away completely June 18th – informed TianZi
6. Requested new “larger” corms at my expense on June 28th
7. Ms. Sophia informs me that they will not sale plants until after Olympics is over because of tightened security – fair enough
8. After Olympics, I request a new shipment on August 21st
9. Ms. Sophia states that they no longer ship plant material
10. I kindly request they reconsider which Ms. Sophia agrees to on September 2nd
11. After some haggling about fresh material and another shut-down, I wire additional money on Oct. 6th
12. Dr. Margraf agrees that they have received the wire transfer on Oct. 25th.
13. After hearing nothing from my emails for two weeks, I finally copy every email address I can find on Nov. 12th
14. Ms. Sophia has left and never provided a tracking # for the inbound shipment. Subsequently, the package is delivered to the local idiot who destroys the package thinking it’s a bad turkey. This could have been easily avoided if I had the tracking # or some indication it was coming.
15. The new guy, Oak, attempts to pack and send a new package on Nov. 18th.
16. He attempts about one a week through November and December without success. Who knows how many he tried.
17. Two months later he asks me “What I should do now”.

After receiving the above question from Oak, knowing that their 10th or so attempt in the last two months was unsuccessful passing export requirements in China, and after a year of writing optimistic notes to their team hoping they’d figure it out, I wrote the following note in frustration:

“Oak, Minguo and Josef,

I'm not sure what I need to be asking from you guys. Ms. Sophia never indicated any problem with inspection on our previous attempts. I'm totally blind to the process and have no knowledge of what exactly is required; however, I would think you would contact the inspectors directly and ask them exactly why these corms have failed previously, as an attempt to resolve the problem. I'm confident that the inspectors aren't simply trying to prevent you from shipping plant material. Simply "packing more carefully" apparently is not the inspectors concern. Editor's Note: They stated on multiple occasions how they were gonna pack more carefully to avoid problems. No elaboration.

I now have a trail of over 150 emails, over a period of 1+ years, minus around 500 US dollars and nothing to show for it. I'm an extremely patient person when it comes to the difficulties you may encounter, but I'm beginning to feel that you have no intention of providing me with good viable material. This process would be comical if it weren't so sad. Maybe I should ask you guys what my expectations should be?

With Concern,

Dr. Margraf’s solution was to simply copy me on his email to Oak:

“Dear Oak,

kindly prepare for refunding and let me know how much it has to be. I can do this from here in Europe through PayPal. I believe also we lost enough on this. Please refuse plant orders for the future.

Best regards from Spain,

Josef”

It has been over a week since this last email. I have sent emails to Dr. Margraf in an attempt to explore other possibilities. I even suggested a possible group buy for the Bananas.org group to try and make the distribution of this species worthwhile (profitable). I have sent emails to both Oak and Minguo asking if perhaps Dr. Margraf was unavailable. Nothing. So sad.

Chironex

What a bummer! This is why I am so leery of pre-paid international orders from strangers.
Perhaps I should move to China and become a plant intermediary. Anyone care to fund this venture, I am accepting donations. I could travel to China, India and Tog can handle the Southeast. What a business plan!!!

__________________
Scot

buffy

I don't want to imply deceit on TianZi's part. My impression is one of possible incompetence or crazy Chinese regulations. I don't hate these guys. I'm just sad and frustrated.

Chironex

True, I didn't take it that way. Sorry if that was the impression I gave. I sense frustration on both sides of the deal. Too bad it hasn't turned out the way it should. I wish that they still were selling plants and corms, but perhaps this is why they stopped due to issues with customs on one or the other ends.

__________________
Scot

harveyc

Wow, Buffy, sorry to hear of such a frustrating experience.

__________________

Tog Tan

Buffy, I understand your problem and I had such a similar experience in Thailand some years ago on a big order.
On the other hand, it is very good of you for not being angry. Kudos to you. Over here we call such an experience, school fees paid for a higher education.

Maybe you should email this page to Dr Margraf and see what reaction you get. I mean there is nothing bad said about them only your view of their incompetence of which I wholly agree. I do not like the idea that all your efforts, patience and money should be gone without an answer.

Lastly, out of curiosity, just recently I wrote to a seed company based in Indian(they are also a member here) asking for their minimum quantity for sale. Their reply was very prompt, but... asking me what quantity I want. I thought that was weird, answering a question with a question. So, I said only 200 sds of each species as germination sample. I never heard from them again. What I am annoyed about is the attitude here. What I wanted to know is what is the comfortable quantity which is worthwhile for them for business. If the price is decent, I will buy and give the extras away. These people go on the web and it's an international market they are offering their products. Yet, the attitude is such. Sales is also very much part of the service industry. I didn't feel any of it here in this case. Why go on the net?

__________________



____
Tog Tan has sadly suddenly passed away 6/16/09. We will miss you Tog Tan.

bigdog

It is a shame, because of all of the wonderful plant material that they have access to. Who knows how long it will take for some of that stuff to make it into cultivation now? They had some cool aroids too. In my experience, ordering from Asian companies is difficult, probably in part due to the language barrier. Boggles my mind how we are able to buy seeds of so many Chinese cycads and other plants, but Musa seeds and plants remain very elusive. Musa itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis is an extremely desirable species, and I'm sure that there would be a market for it both here and in Europe. I think we will just have to wait...patiently...

Chironex

As soon as I can verify that what I am growing is Xishaung, I am planning to TC it and offer to our members. I 'THINK' that I have one, but won't know until it grows out. Otherwise, I am looking for a pup somewhere from a verified source.

__________________
Scot

51st state

I gave up with them a long time ago. shame really as they're the only ones with access to all these new species Markku keeps describing. I can't see any of them making it out into the market for a long time. I understand they got burnt a bit at the start with Musella Lasiocarpa and ended up getting stuck with 100's of them once the originals made it into TC.
It's amazing how bad they are when you bear in mind the Thai's are successfully flogging all sorts of corms/rhizomes fairly well (with some exceptions admittedly)
Go sort them out Scot.

__________________
a>

damaclese

wow I'm sorry this happened to you i my self have had a vary bad experience with a Lg they are Korean i have appliances from them they don't seem to know what parts are go figure it took me over 8 months to get a part i received no less then 7 packages from them all the same part never the right one dos any one need one or two fire control boards for an un known LG drier then again on a frig i had three shipments all parts broking its was infuriating (at least i have three vary nice pieces of glass with pretty LG graphics on them) to say the least its been my impression that they don't have the same level of interest in people that Americans do you know at least i feel like i want to make people happy! they simply do not see how that would inter in to it. its grab you money and go. so for that reason i no longer buy any thing over the net or from Asian providers makes it vary hard to get stuff here since every thing is mad in china now i recommend German stuff they stand by there products and are vary polite as for the banana problem i think we are going to just have to Waite and see if some more reputable growers here can get them i know from buying Orchids that money is the only thing that gets you any were in the plant world a piece of good advice only give money were product is visible and in hands never allow a transaction that has multiple steps they wont fallow throw dos this all sound familiar what other Asian run Green house have just about every one I'm the Org had trouble with i give you a hint! what dos scantily clad guys and girls siting in front of Banana trees bring to mind first word starts with T!!!!! last letter is a Y

__________________
Helping to foster understanding for the learning disabled

Chironex

You have no idea how much I would love to move to China! It would be a dream come true for me. If I could find a way to make a living, I would be gone in a flash.
Then just imagine how many banana plants everyone would be able to get. I would gather pups and seeds, growth them, TC them and ship certified, clean TC plantlets in zip bags. Hmmmmm?

__________________
Scot

bigdog

I'd be surprised and delighted if you have the real thing, Scot. One way of ID'ing it is to cut into a leaf or the pseudostem. If the sap is any color other than red, it is NOT var. xishuang...

Gabe15

I must have caught them in a good time because I had a very pleasant and easy transaction with them a few years ago when I imported 2 M. rubinea and a M. yunnanensis.

__________________
Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Chironex

Me too, but I am hoping to grow it out a bit before slicing into it. It's very small as I got it just before the end of fall.
With the temps here in summer, I usually buy on Spring or Fall.

If it doesn't bleed red, I will be looking for a true one. I am glad you mentioned that however, as I thought that only applied to Fe'i bananas. So, it's good to know. Thanks Frank!

__________________
Scot

buffy

I will continue to write to these guys. I'm a big fan of what they're doing over there. I'm totally perplexed by their inability to send plant material successfully to the states. They've never offered an explanation. Again, I'm just frustrated and sad. I wish them well and maybe I'll get lucky enough to get them reinvested into the dialogue. If any of y'all get a chance, check this interview out with Dr. Margraf, it's pretty cool:

Green Hero

Bob

Buffy, thanks for posting the link. After seeing it ,I kind of feel just how dissapointed you must be. It seems with proper systems management it could be a great company. Good luck.

__________________

buffy

Dr. Margraf was gracious enough to write me back. All hope is not lost. Again, the video really gets you excited about their operation. As I mentioned to him on the email, I'm terribly jealous of some of his experience.

buffy

OK. This is officially over. Dr. Margraf, after discussions with his team, just can't figure out a way to make this work for them. Tough break for me. I advise all interested parties to not waste your time attempting this with TianZi. It just can't work for them.

damaclese

sorry to hear that Buffy but chock it up to a life's lessen well learned and play it for what its werth if i ever get one of the X Musa all try and send you one but don't hold your breath i think its going to be a long long time before china lets this one get out they seem to be quite attached to them well in a country with over a billion people its hard to imagine how difficult it must be to manage even the smallest of district

__________________
Helping to foster understanding for the learning disabled

Chironex

Ok, I will make the sacrifice and go over there to work for Tian Zi. It's a tough job.........

__________________
Scot