Gabe15

Just curious and thought others might want to share too.

In the past I have had....
Musa velutina
Musa sikkimensis
Musa cheesmani
Ensete sp. 'Thai superbum'
Unknown Musa from Bhutan

and recently....
More Musa velutina
Musa balbisiana
Unknown Musa from Papua New Guinea (probly M. ingens variety)

I have tried hundreds of seeds and probly around 30 species at least, and of all those only a handful ever germinated for me (im sure thats a common theme for many of us!)

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

mrbungalow

Everything except that darn Musa Ingens! Some of the easier ones have been the hybrids, as well as sikkimensis, balbisiana, velutina, and ornata.

The more difficult ones have been Musa Acuminata, Musa Itinerans, and Ensete Superbum.

I have had batches of seeds that have been impossible to geminate. I ordered 200 seeds of ensete ventricosum once, and planted 50. Not a single one germinated. A year later I planted the rest, just to get rid of them. Almost everything germinated, EXACT same procedure and materials. Who knows what's going on in that little seed...

My best tip would be to use hygienic soil but not pure perlite or vermiculite. And also keep the soil kind of wet. Don't worry, it will take a LONG time before any banana seeds rot. If it's too dry, germination will be slow and sporadic. And offcourse, without fluctuating temps, there is no chance!!

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grammie

you mentioned it takes a long time for them to rot. Will they get soft if they are? I have some ensete left that I planted in the spring and set out. They never dried out and they are still rock hard.

mrbungalow

The seeds will stay hard for probably decades. The part that rots is the fleshy "eye" on the seed. It's often hard to see if a seed is rotten, but usually there will be a hole or worms in the "eye" of the seed. If in doubt, take a sniff. If it smells like the breath of your algebra-teacher, you can be sure they are no good!

Erlend

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rane

Ensete glaucum
Musa acuminata
Musa ornata
Musa velutina
Musa balbisiana

Of those the velutinas vere pretty easy, about 50% germination rate in a few weeks and the balbisianas super easy, every single one of them germinated in less than 2 weeks ! (some of them died later though) I've also tried some Musa sikkimensis but so far failed miserably.

jeffreyp

I think the best hope to get musa ingens in cultivation is through tissue culture. Ideally, if one could get a couple corms out of papua new guinea and delivered to a tissue culture lab, that would be the way to go. I am amazed at the beauty of that plant.

MediaHound

Velutina and currently working on Sikkimensis 'Manipur' (and more Velutina)

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Apologies in advance if I am slow to reply to your PM. I suggest posting in the forums for support if you need something urgent.

mrbungalow

This is how I solve the problem of musa-sprouting, with pictures.

The equipment I use: Reptile heating mat, el. timer, and plastic boxes with lids. I place the setup in a cold room, in my case our bedroom. I keep it on for 10 hrs and off for 14 hrs. This means 10 hrs of 25-30 degrees C and 14 hrs. of 13-18 degrees C.

In a matter of 1 week to 3 months, most seeds should sprout. I am so excited, that I check atleast 3 times a week for white roots. In this case, musa sikkimensis has sprouted well.

I pot them up immediately, after I see some roots & shoots. I use drinking cups, with holes made in the bottom for drainage. The soil should be well draining. I use cactus soil with perlite. This means frequent watering!

The seedlings grow extremely slow the first month, I have found good light conditions and movement of air is beneficial to reduce the problem of "damping off". This has never really been a big issue here, but it does occur.
After 3 months of good growth with fertilizer, sunlight, and watering my musa helen looks like this.


Best of luck to everyone who wants to grow from seed!

Erlend

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Zac in NC

I* have 4 Musa thomsonii seedligns from a germination event back in June. The largest have 14 inches of pseudostem now and abotu 14 by 5 inch leaves. Sorry I told you wrong the other day Gabe.

Zac

bigdog

I've been having much better luck with Musa seeds this past year. I've been able to germinate a lot more Musa since I first made this post (this is an edit).

Musa velutina
M. 'Helen's Hybrid' (1 out of 80).

Musa that I've had no luck with include:

M. sikkimensis 'Red Tiger' (100 seeds)
M. ingens (150 seeds!)

Ensete are a different story. No problems with:

Ensete glaucum
Ensete ventricosum

No luck with Ensete 'Kluay Pa' or Ensete perrieri.

Got a bunch more I'm trying now, in addition to the ones above, including:

M. nagensium
M. siamensis
M. yunnanensis
M. sp. 'Violett'
M. itinerans (form India)
M. formosana
M. balbisiana 1 ***NEUE ART***
M. sikkimensis (from banana-tree.com)

I think the key is to get a large quantity, as germination is pretty erratic and percentages are low (for me).

As of today (03-09-07), I can add
Musa balbisiana 'Neue Art' (14/20)
Musa itinerans 'India Form' from sunshine-seeds (3/20).

04-04-07:
Musa x sikkimensis 'Daj Giant' from seedman.com (1/10).

05-03-07:
Musa formosana from sunshine-seeds.com (3/20).

06-19-07:
Ensete superbum (4/100).
Musa ornata 'Orange Flower' (from rarepalmseeds.com)(2/100).

08-11-07
Musa sikkimensis (1/50).

02-16-08
Musa aurantiaca (1/50).
Ensete superbum (1/20).

March '08 - Musa nagensium (6/25)

July '08 - Musa banksii (70!)

August '08 - Ensete gilletii (5/95)

August '08 - Ensete superbum ssp. Thailand (2/60)

Gabe15

Here is a list of seeds ive tried (that I can remember) and sprouted if noted.

Musa monticola
Musa violascens
Musa gracilis
Musa ingens
Musa lawitiensis
Musa campestris var. lawasensis
Musa campestris var. limbangensis
Musa rubinea
Musa cheesmani (sprouted)
Musa sikkimensis (sprouted)
Musa yunnanensis
Musa thomsonii
Musa itinerans var. xishuangbannaensis
Musa nagensium x
Musa beccarii
Musa textilis
Musa velutina (sprouted)
Musa laterita
Musa balbisiana (sprouted)
Musa ingens var.??? (sprouted)
Musa 'New Bhutan'
Musa 'Royal Purple'
Ensete 'Thai superbum' (sprouted)
Ensete ventricosum
Ensete glaucum
Ensete superbum (sprouted)
Ensete perrierii


more seeds I will soon be trying are...

Musa beccarii var. hottana
different Musa balbisiana varieties
different Musa yunnanensis varieties
Musa nagensium
Musa balbisiana x velutina


The best success for me has been just planting seeds in moist sphagnum and putting them in a warm, well lit place. Without even soaking the seeds, I got 100% M. balbisiana germination, 100% M. velutina germination, and so far 50% M. ingens 'unknown variety thing' germination.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

mrbungalow

Are your seeds from Trebrown? The "Papua new guinea unknown variety"? These are most likely NOT musa ingens at all. I will quate what Phil (The owner) had to say about these seeds:

Erlend

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Gabe15

Erlend,
No, I did not get them from Trebrown, I got them from Christian Port about a year ago, I suppose they could be the same seeds, I don't know if they are the same original source, but the description of these were along the lines of "similar in size and appearence to M. ingens with some differences, perhaps a subspecies". It is well known that there are different varieties of M. ingens that have not been studied. However, I have already arranged for a DNA test when they are large enough to collect a sample from.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

mrbungalow

Gabe, you are definately the nr. 1 expert when it comes to musa species. If you got them from Christian Port, they are most likely something atleast in the neighborhodd of musa ingens. He is from what I understand, very passionate about musa ingens! So please tell us, what did you do to make them sprout????

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Tropicallvr

Quantity really helps for getting at least a couple to sprout, but then sometimes you end up with too many if it is an easy sprouter.
My easiest fresh or old seed have got to be Musa cheesmanii first(just germinated some really old stored ones), as well as M.nagesium(one that have same seed shape/look as cheesmanii) followed by Musa acuminata types, then Musa balbisiana, Musa paradisica types, Ensete ventricosum, E.glaucum, E.superbum (India).
Just sprouted some Musa sikkimensisX paradisica(one had three shoots), Musa sikkimensisX Naj Giant, Musa sp 'Violet', and all the M.Cheesmanii that I sowed.
Just changed my sprouting method from baggie to a setup like Erlands, except I'm leaving the top off, and have a fine screen mesh over the top to keep out those pesky black gnats that lay teeny clear worms in the soil, and eat the insides of the seeds. Also changed the medium(which seems alot better) from peat moss/perlite to Coco coir/perlite. Seems to be working great. Good luck all!

griphuz

So far:

Ensete ventricosum (no problem, but some batches just won't go)
Ensete superbum (easy! sprouts like weed)
Ensete sp. (Thai) (nothing)
Ensete perrierii (nothing)
Ensete glaucum (poorly)

Musa sikkimensis (poorly)
Musa velutina (very fluctiating, but overall not good)
Musa cheesmani (nothing)
Musa ornata (nothing, but old seeds)
Musa itinerans (nothing)
Musa thompsonii (nothing)

My next problem is to get small plants of Ensete superbum and E. ventricosum through the winter, they are about 50 -60 cm high (planthight) now,...how do I do that? Warm and light, or just cold (5 deg) and dry like big ones?

Tropicallvr

So far sprouted-
E.ventricosum(really easy)
E.glaucum(easy)
E.superbum India, (really easy)
E.superbum(tough) 1 out of 100 seeds, but had temps too high and cooked most of the seeds.
E.klauy pa(tough) 2 out of 10 and it took a year

Musellea lasiocarpa(tough) put in fridge for 2 months then had 1 of 100

Musa paradisica(bananatree.com) easy, beutiful dark leaved waxy plant, not hardy but grows quickly from rhimozomes in spring.
Musa balbisiana(sunshine seeds) easy, but seems to be a dwarf
Musa balbisiana1(sunshine seeds) easy 10 of 10, really fast
Musa acuminata(bananatree) really easy about 80 of 100 killed most off but tested survivors in cold greenhouse, and all survived as very small 5 leafed seedlings with heavy spider mites, and cold unlike many other including larger raji puri(may have been due to mites)
Musa cheesmanii(super easy) nearly 100%
Musa nagesium( super easy) 80%
Musa formosiana 10 of 100,within the first month
Musa Bhutan easy 30 out of 60
Musa royal purple medium 4 out of 10(killed off all but one, that has black trunk)
Musa sikkimensis(bananatree.com) tough, but cooked due to high temps
Musa sikkimensis red flash medium, pressed against window in spring 2 of 10.
Musa sikkimensis' Helen hybrid' 1 of 10
Musa sikkimensisX paradisica 2 of 20 so far easy!
Musa sikkimensisX Naj giant 1 of 10 so far
Musa burmese blue 3 of 10 easy
Musa sp violet 1 of 30 so far
Musa xbananinsis(big flower) 4 of 20
Musa yellow forest 3 of 10 all died easyly
Musa initerans form india 1 of 100, and I killed it too.
Can't remember any more.

griphuz

Can you see any difference between Musa cheesmani and M. nagensium yet?
Where did you get those seeds (since they are easy according to you).
And are they real white nagensium seeds or black nagensiun x seeds?

wim

In what medium do you guys sow in?

Tropicallvr, I'm surprised you went away from using peat moss in favor of coco peat. With all the tests I've done (not with banana seeds though) with coco peat, the germination rates were very high but later on all the seedlings died from damping off. I went back to using Sphagnum moss peat. It somehow slows the development of fungi/bacteria.

The tests I performed with adult plants (also no bananas) with coco peat gave the same good results as with using Shagnum moss peat.

Gabe15, is that living Sphanum moss that you're using or Sphagnum moss peat ?

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With kind regards
Wim

Gabe15

I use the whole stuff, not peat.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.