51st state

How do people feel about the merits of both?

Whilst I accept that TC allows many of us to acquire plants at a reasonable cost , but , any views out there on bio-diversity and maintaining genetic diversity by cultivation from seed.

I have done both and there is nothing better than showing someone an enormous banana plant and saying "I grew that from seed".

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Gabe15

I don't think there is any conflict between growing from seed and tissue culture (really micropropagation is more percise, tissue culture is a broad term that can still apply to growing from seed, but for our reasons TC is fine and understood). The main use of micropropagation/TC of banana is to provide cheap, disease-free, uniform planting material to farmers. It is of course a popular technology now in horticulture because you can produce many plants at a very cheap cost.

Since this topic is geared toward seed vs. TC, it applies to those bananas which can be grown from seed, wild species only (edible bananas for our reasons I don't feel apply). TC in this case actually (in my view) preserves biodiversity, there have been many instances (not only in banana, but in many other plants as well) where TC is the only reason the wild plant is still in existence today, you can turn one of very few remaining plants into thousands of a given species.

The way TC is used differs between the researching community and the business community, and they really do not need to follow the same trends. Researchers are actively collecting and growing plants from seed and preserving the diversity found with TC. Although a business is just multiplying the one specific variety they prefer, this has no impact on the conservation of bananas (or any plants). It is not like if Agri-Starts is not selling a species of banana, the international genebank (at INIBAP) will not have it, the genebanks do not care what is being sold where to consumers, they collect everything and have more diversity then will ever be offered commercially.

Now for the homegrower, it really doesn't matter, you don't have to feel bad about buying TC'd plants instead of growing from seed, its all about personal preference. I myself enjoy growing bananas from seed, its fun and I agree that is feels good to grow things from seed. Yes seed can produce variability and introduce new types of plants, but rest assured that tissue culturing plants is not affecting biodiversity negatively.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

Tropicallvr

Sometimes you get a extra vigourous seedling that if you get it VIA TC might just have average vigor. That might also go for hardiness in somecases, such as getting a seed sourced from a particularly high elevation.
Musa sikkimensis TC from Agri-starts is just plain, no red splotches, but it's really vigorous. I think they should TC "red flash" or "red tiger" instead.
Maybe TC working in conjuction with seed raised plants would be the best, like raising 100 or more plants from seed then selecting the best one, and TCing it for color, growth rate, ect.

inkcube

i started in TC, i like to tell visitors that a certain plant came from a single cell swirling around on an agitator or from a plate of callus. in the orchid world TC allows us to own plants that would otherwise cost a fortune, in fact the only way orchid seed is germinated now is on a sterile plate. with carnivorous plants TC helps prevent over collecting of wild and endangered species. it was mentioned above that researchers & governments are collecting germplasm, this helps preserve species and superior germ lines.

plus in the word of seedless bananas TC is the best hope sometimes for developing superior disease resistance, i can think of 2 cultivars being grown in plantations that came out of TC that were resistant to race 3 and race 4 of fusarium wilt. throughout my career i have seen many plantations where all the plants are TC plants, they can produce replacement plants faster that they can with seeds and there is more uniformity with the crop.

i would guess out of the thousand or so orchids in my collection 99% are TC, i know all of my CP's are (i did them myself), and probably 50% of my bananas are. the ones in a current research trial i am conducting are all TC, they must be completely uniform clones to rule out variability.

the way i see things, on both commercial and research level, TC is a must in order to maintain the best traits and to develop a uniform crop. but as the Buddha said before he died. "i could be wrong".

Bch Grl

Great discussion...Thanks!


Margie

taroking

In the commercial plant business, the number of TC plants available is growing all the time. To ignore this trend would be a shame. The plants are cheap, uniform, and vigorous. I would recommend just to keep and open mind and don't discount any propagation method until weighing out the merits. As Confucius said "The mind is like a parachute, it only operates while open"

dablo93

what's the full name of TC?

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Tropicallvr

Tissue Culture

dablo93

thanks
I hearded from it, plants are often less weaker and less hardy etc, isn't it?
is this not a 'good' way to multiply the Ae ae's and other special and rare plants?

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inkcube

tc does not diminish vigor. ae ae cannot be propagated via tc due to the variegation. variegation will not hold up under tc.

chris10858

Hi, I've been curious about doing some amatuer TC'ing at home. Is tis feasilbe? How much would it cost for a basic setup? This isn't for any type of business or anything on alarge scale. I've just always been interested in trying my hand at something like this, especially for musas or other tropicals.
Thanks!

klemmthamm

It is my understanding that yes it is possible, but contamination is going to be a major concern in a home setup.

I have been kicking the idea around for a while, the cost doesn't appear to be to bad... a few hundred bucks would prolly get a good basic set up... nothing fancy by any means but it'd do the job.

let me know if you take the plunge cause I would like to know how it turns out for ya.

-James-

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"No sir we don't have quotas anymore. We used to have quotas but now we're allowed to write as many tickets as we want." - Unknown officer

klemmthamm

Oh almost forgot... I have a link to a place that will give you a good idea of what TC involves... and they also sell kits (overpriced IMO) but it has some good info.

I will PM it to you when I get home tomorrow.

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"No sir we don't have quotas anymore. We used to have quotas but now we're allowed to write as many tickets as we want." - Unknown officer

musa_monkey

Been toying with the idea of TC myself, here is a link to a home kitchen kit that's worth a look.

http://www.kitchenculturekit.com/kit.htm

chris10858

Awesome! Thanks so much.

Gabe15

Iʻm thinking about setting up little TC operation at my house next summer. I have some ideas about sterility, but I think with enough caution it might be possible. The biggest challenge I see is getting the media sterile prior to culturing, normally you would autoclave it, but there is that product called PPM (Plant Preservative Mixture) that is supposed to help, Ive tried it before without success but I think there was too much contamination from other things, if you made sure the vessels, tools and tissue was sterile, perhaps the PPM might work better if only the media needed sterilization.

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Growing bananas in Colorado, Washington, Hawaii since 2004. Commercial banana farmer, 200+ varieties.

klemmthamm

lol nevermind about the links... musa monkey and gabe just about covered it.

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"No sir we don't have quotas anymore. We used to have quotas but now we're allowed to write as many tickets as we want." - Unknown officer

Mustang

I seem to remember that TC was discussed last year, and Erlend was setting up a kitchen system. Erland, if you read this, did you ever manage to do it?

D_&_T

might have to try this myself!


Dan

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inkcube

a home setup can be done very easily. while working on my MS i had setup a home lab with a 29 gal. fish tank, piece of plastic sheeting, mason jars, baby food jars & a pressure cooker. i produced several thousand orchids generated from floral buds and carnivorous plants with this setup, because of this i was asked to join a lab at Yale and give a presentation at AIBS.

the fish tank on its side act as your hood, the plastic sheet is a curtain to hang over the open end to keep sterile, the pressure cooker is your autoclave - it runs on the same principle. you'll need alcohol (90% isopropyl) to sterilize the tank interior, instruments, etc, you can also wipe down the interior with a 10% bleach/water solution. NEVER mix bleach & alcohol!!!

your main difficulties will be getting chemicals; often they are sold only to labs or schools, they come in quantities that might be more than you'll need, & they can be expensive. another problem will be a good analytical scale; the purchase of one can put you on the DEA watch list for 5 years and in some states they are classified as drug paraphernalia.

i can give more details on how i set this up if some one wants.