asacomm

I think I have ever heard that TC plant is less hardy than sucker pup.
In fact it seems to me that TC D.Orinoco and Brazilian did not show the
cold hardiness as it should have done, and it died and rot to its corm even
under the eaves where no frost fell. Here is said to be zone 9b and this kind
of thing could not happen. But it happened.
Is there any difference between TC and sucker pup?

musa_monkey

That's an interesting question.
If you think about it a sucker pup grows exposed to all the elements and has time to learn to cope with weather, temperature and humidity variations etc.

A TC pup is grown in sterile conditions so has to experience shock once exposed to the elements no matter how carefully it is introduced to the real world.

I suspect therefore that a sucker pup is probably more hardy however proving it is another matter altogether !

bencelest

Everything should be done gradual. Exposing a TC pup to a very cold temperature w/o acclimating it first is suicidal. A sucker pup that was borne outside the house has been acclimated and should be OK.

__________________
Banana Nut

musa_monkey

Of course thats a given for experienced growers
but no matter how slowly you expose the TC pup to the world it will never see the sheer range and diversity of climatic conditions and elements that a natural sucker pup has grown up with in its natural environment
Hence the interesting question from asacomm

mrbungalow

In my experience: TC-plants need a longer time than suckers to develop resistance to the elements (sunshine, cold, heat, etc.) But when they are hardened off and settled in, I can't spot any difference.

An example: I had to baby a TC Musa Basjoo with minimal roots for about 6 months before it started acting "normal", and this was inside a greenhouse! Now it's growing fine, and will go outside in a month.

To turn the question around a little bit: Wich cultivars you grow have not been Tissue Cultured at some period in time? And what mass produced cultivars for sale at garden centres and department stores are not TC plants??

__________________

JoeReal

Agreed. TC plantlets of the same height as sucker pups are never as hardy in all counts. Break the pseudostem of a newly acquired TC plantlet in half, most likely it will not grow back. Break the sucker pup's pseudostem in half, it grows back with a vengeance.

mrbungalow

Also; Suckers usually have a "lunchbox" with them, - a piece of corm.

TC plants of the same heights have minimal corms and underdeveloped root-system. But leave them in pots for a few months, and they will eventually gain hardiness.

__________________

bencelest

This is something to think about!

__________________
Banana Nut

sandy0225

I think the problem is that the tc's as was said don't have that reserve to fall back on. So you do have to be more careful with them at first because if you overwater, don't fertilize properly, etc, it affects the tc plants more. If you rot the roots, they don't have anything to live on while they grow some new ones like a corm plant does. Even at the same height, say 12" they don't have the corm mass that the pups have. Does that mean that one is better than the other? no, it's just like starting something from seed. If you treat them as seedlings and baby them a little bit, by two feet tall, you really can't tell any difference in their sturdiness.
I appreciate that we can get tc plants though, because it sure would be difficult to get pups of the quantity that we can get tc plants. Some of these bananas would be super rare I'd imagine without it.

__________________
Sandy Burrell



Northern Tropics Greenhouse
1501 East Fuson Road
Muncie, IN 47302
www.northerntropics.com


specializing in bananas, heirloom tomatoes and water gardening plants~
check out our new online store at our website!

asacomm

In addition to D.Orinoco and D.Brazilian, Rajapuri and Williams hybrid finally
died even with winter protections, but Cardaba survived. All of them were TC
plants except Cardaba which was from pup.

Here is considered to be in zone 9b although there were 2 nights of 25F.
But all TC plants could not overwinter despite pup of Cardaba survived.
TC plants and pups should be DNA wise exactly the same, but it seems to me
that something is different in cold hardiness as pups have experienced the
cold winter, while TC plant faced their first winter. That might make a difference
in cold hardiness.

STEELVIPER

What about moisture? Cold +wet = rot. How was the rain fall for you this winter? What kind of protection did you use? Did you remove the protection you provided your plants to let them dry out?

__________________

asacomm

Hi Mark,
1. Moisture outside was average about 30% or so.
2. Rainfall in the winter was relatively much.
3. Winter protection by straw mats.
4. When the protection was removed, the pstem had been already rotten.

Thanx for your comment.

Musamania

Any difference noted in fruiting, or quality of fruit...TC vs natural division? I was into Hosta twenty-something years ago. Grew over 230 cultivars...NONE from TC. Hosta were notoriously unstable from TC at that time, and many of the TC releases did not do justice to the stock from "pups". But, Hosta are prone to "sport". TC screening may have improved big time,..in the long interim? How stable are Musa & Ensete..?

__________________
http://www.bananas.org/images/smilie...files/2623.gif

modenacart

My orinoco TC grew way faster than all of my pups have grown.

Musamania

Appreciated your comment. Good tissue-cultured stock could certainly eliminate virus & pathogens that might come from natural divisions, resulting in a better garden performance. I only question the "selection process" that allows certain plants to be released from TC. As for anything pertaining to Musa, Ensete, etc,.....I just don't know. Thanks for the input.

__________________
http://www.bananas.org/images/smilie...files/2623.gif

Musamania

By the way....Love your chicken house. Looks very well designed. Once upon a tyme, I bred Old English Bantams in WA,..and had Golden Sebrights in GA. Off the subject....but I liked the pics. You did NOT say what bred of Chix that you have: What genera of Banana...?

__________________
http://www.bananas.org/images/smilie...files/2623.gif

modenacart

Thanks for the comments on the chicken house. If you like that then go to Chicken Blog. My wife is keep a log of them. That should answer you questions about which breed and such. Keeping the chicks is a lot of fun.

About TC, I think you are right about it being luck of the draw. I had two that grew really well, but I killed the other two by putting them in the sun way to soon.

The Orinoco TC is only one season old and its as taller than one group of unknown bananas and as tall as another group of unknown banana that have been growing for three years. The two groups of unknown are suspected to be either ice cream or orinoco. The group its taller than I have overwintered in the ground, the group its as tall as I overwinter under the house, along with the TC orinoco.

Other pups I planted last year were goldfinger, saba and guay namwha. The orinoco TC grew way faster then those did and those pups had very nice corms on them when I planted them.

Tropicallvr

I had some smaller seedlings. A couple I left outside in the greenhouse, and a couple I kept inside(all same species) all year just to make sure I had some that survived. Then the next year since they all survived I left them all outside in the greenhouse. The winter was a little more severe that second year and it seemed like the ones that had been left outside the previous year, and had been "hardened off" fared alot better.

Musamania

But,...does anyone have TC bananas that have fruited...? If so,..does the fruit always appear to be identical to the natural divisions? I don't know how long nanners have been tissue cultured. ?

__________________
http://www.bananas.org/images/smilie...files/2623.gif