Mindless2831

I don't know what to do. I bought 3 Gors Michel Pups from an online nursery since that was the only way to get them. When I received them they looked fairly healthy but a little wilty. I put them in little starter pots with a garden soil, perlite, peatmoss mix, because I intend to put them outside. I'm trying not to water them too much, I wait until the soil is about 1 to 1 1/2 inch deep dry, but they are getting worse and worse. It could be transplant shock I suppose, but I want to make sure I'm not losing them. I put them in the side of the house so it gets the morning sun but they aren't looking any better. I've since moved them in today, put them on a heat mat just to make sure it was warm enough and under a ge led grown light, the big fixtures that look like short t5 bulbs but are led's. The light spectrum is good as is the temperature, but I know I'm gonna have to wait to see the results. As I said, I just don't want them to die as they are out of stock now and I'd have to wait until next year... It's about 70 to 90 outside during the day and 60 to 75 at night if that helps. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Here's a picture when I pulled them out of the box:


Here's them after I cut the leaves off because they were wilty and crunchy:





I have yet to fail at growing anything completely thus far, and I've grown more and more every year. This is the one I am most excited about and I would hate to fail and have to wait another year to try again. Please help!

sddarkman619

I'd say contact teh seller and get replacements.

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smeash

What do you think caused that Larry? I was thinking too large of a pot and staying too moist.

sddarkman619

That's what I was thinking too.

The soil holds water for too long for the plants to use if the pot is too big, thereby causing "drowning" or root rot.

Sometimes people keep watering them thinking they need so much water but are in effect killing them. The soil need to be moist but not wet and dry enough for the root to breathe.

I include instructions with my plants to wait for the plants to first recover from shipping before transplanting. And wait until there's root coming out the bottom to insure a good root system.

I also suggest, when asked to only go up in pot size just a bit bigger than the last one, and only go up as needed.

Doesn't look like these were shipped in pots.

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Mindless2831

OK, so what can I do to solve this problem? I've since fertilized them with a 4-2-6 espoma organic fruit tree fertilizer granules and sprayed them with iv Organics 3in1 tree spray recommend for bananas to protect the remaining pseduostem... Should I move them to a 4in pot? If I do just a little water to wet the soil or let the rhyzome dry a little? Should I keep it indoors on the mat and under the grow light while it recovers? Should I give it a little liquid organic fertilizer to help it now? You are right, they doesn't have a pot, the soil was wrapped in saran wrap, otherwise I would have waited like I have with all my plants. I need help, I'll be extremely upset if I lose these. And not even you guys have these in stock anymore so I can get one from you because I checked lol. If you have one is gladly order it now and I'd stop freaking out if I had just 1 I knew was going to make it. I don't want to have to wait a year before trying again... Thanks for the info, please help!

edwmax

First Off .... Those are Tissue culture (TC) plantlets, not true banana pups. TCs are lab grown from green plant material. .... Pups are sprouts from a mature banana plant and usually 2ft or 3 ft tall when separated from the mother corm.



Now from your photo above the TCs have not even grown their true leaves yet and only have 2 pre-leaves. ( I forget what they are called). It obvious lab specimen hasn't been in plug trays every long, At this stage of growth the plantlets should still be in a shade-house (80%) or greenhouse under strict controlled growing conditions ( high humidity, heat, misting, grow lights, ect) for 2 or 3 months. Then moved to 50% shade-house for harding off to full sunlight. From TC to field ready, in ground planting would take about 6 to 8 months.



These plantlets are too young to have the reserve store of energy needed to recover from stress as you show in the photos.



I did a quick search for a TC growing description. This one and there are others you can google. Also, note there is a difference between TC plantlets and micro-propagated plantlets, but growing & handling is about the same after the plantlets get to the 50% shade-house stage.


https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/bananas/propagation-bananas

Read the 'Tissue Culture plant handling' section.

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Mindless2831

Only thing about what you said is they all had at minimum 2 large leaves as is shown in the first picture. I have since cut them off as they shriveled and turned crunchy and no longer had any green to provide photosynthesis of any kind. So please take a look again at that. But I do believe you are correct that they were TC's and not pup's, I wasn't aware this was a thing. So I have tried to remedy the issues it's having by removing them from their current pots. In doing so I noticed that the plug he used was wrapped in moist dirt, and then around most soil that has never become dry since there was a barrier. I ripped this barrier off and planted in newly prepared dry soil. 1 pseudostem clearly had severe stem rot, the brownest one in the pictures, and I believe it is dead now but I'll continue to try. The second one that has no curve to it had what looked like the start of stem rot, but it still looked healthy enough tissue to be saved, but we shall see. The third most healthy looking one that is curved, was green all the way down to the roots, so I'm hopeful about this one. I repotted them in 4inch pots and added no water so it could suck the water out of the stupid crap he put around the roots that is likely to have caused all the issues. I thought I broke it up enough before planting without realizing he had netting underneath the outer soil that kept it compacted and moist. I also mixed 1 tbsp of 3% hydrogen perodixe with 1 cup of water and put a tiny bit in each of the 3 pots so as not to add too much water but add some oxygen to the soil and kill off any fungus or bacteria. I was careful to not get any on the pseduostem of any of the plants. I then mixed 1tsp of 3% hydrogen peroxide in a spray bottle with 1 cup of water and misted the outside of the pseduostems, especially at the part on the 2 that had stem rot or the beginnings of it, which are now above the soil instead of in it, to hopefully kill away the fungus causing the rot. The third just in case since they were all in close proximity and it could use the extra oxygen. We shall see what this does. I'm hoping I can at least save the one that looks hopeful and then I'll be ok. This has all become an experiment at this point, so we shall see what happens. Thank you for the info, and I just wanted to update everyone else on the steps I've taken to try and correct the issue. Please let me know if anyone has anymore suggestions. Or if you think this is a lost cause. I'm so sad right now.

subsonicdrone

i think they still have a chance of surviving
there is a leaf tip showing
a new sprout might pop out of the side of the existing stem
personally i would not be fertilizing

smeash

Agree with all above. These plants should not be fertilized, and if at all a very diluted fish emulsion. TC plantlets are not plug and play so to speak.. my first ones were received in december of 2019.. they stayed in their plug pots under lights for 3 weeks. I would mist them and occasionally water. ater 3 weeks they had grown well, i moved them to one gallon pots and continued the misting/light watering. When they were about 10 inches tall, i started them on a diluted banana fuel fertilizer. They went outside under dapples shade/sun in mid feb, and they went in the ground about the end of march. They were well developed at by that time. I got a second batch of TCs in march, and after 3 or 4 weeks of the same regimen, i tried to rush them and put in the ground. All but one died back to the soil line, at which time i repotted them and moved back to dappled shade. They all recovered and were planted in ground in july of that year. So you have a good chance of saving at least one. You cannot rush TC plantlets.. but if you take your time they will grow once the corm is established. My original TCs are 16 months old now, almost 13 feet of Pstem, and all are fruiting.

This is a year ago after they were planted in ground.


And this is today

Mindless2831

Beautiful. Yes once I realized what the issue was and changed the soil I did not add fertilizer granules, so it no longer has fertilizer. I'm still concerned about the roots having root rot though. I watched a guy on YouTube clean his off, cut away the brown roots, and then he put wax on the corm, replanted in a new pot, and then sealed the pot and all in a ziploc for the greenhouse effect. I don't K ow if I should go this far, but should I unpot them again, wash the roots, and cut away the brown soggy ones, or do you think the peroxide will do its things and kill the fungus and allow the rest to grow properly? They are very sad looking and it's only getting worse. I realise I only changed their situation last night and it'll take time, but I feel if I make even 1 wrong move in going to lose them all. Pretty sure I've lost 1 already.

Link to the video of you're curious. The follow up video shows he did infact save it.

https://youtu.be/DVWhkmG6HsQ

Mindless2831

Well, I've taken the extreme route as I feel if I waited much longer there would be no route to take...

I pulled up the most dead one that had stem rot bad and it broke from the roots, cut it open and the center shoot was green but it stopped about an inch before the roots and was gone.

The middle dead one I pulled and all the roots were mushy and gross so I cut them up leaving just a little stump off the corm and replanted it in a 4 inch pot and misted it and sealed it in a ziploc.

The third was white and green all the way to the corn and looked very healthy but also had very bad root rot. I was able to salvage a little piece of on of the roots about 1.5 inches long and kept it there and did the same as the last.

I've likely killed them all or they will come back, who knows, I'm very discouraged at this point. All the roots were caked with the cardboard type plug crap he used and it's no wonder the roots rotted. I'm extremely upset that they were handled this way.

Maybe I can save one with the extreme measures I've taken, but I feel like this is just a loss cause... Unfortunately it's corm was so very small in comparison with the video I linked since they are tc's, and I feel the wax step was extremely strange and couldn't find anything on the viability of that measure and I don't have non scented wax candles as it is. I've tried researching its application but can find nothing on it.

Let me know your thoughts as to whether or not I'm just screwed. I'll post updates on whether the 2 left die or start to look better. I'm not hopeful at this point... Thanks for all the suggestions thus far.

wstrickland1

And then we have Lou Ferrigno, the freak of nature that was slammed in to the ground right out of the USPS box because I knew nothing and grew 7' in 4 months......

edwmax

You can try washing/soak the small corm with strong bleach water tokill any rot fungus and trim away any soft black rot & black roots. Then pot in course builder's sand (not play sand); mist spray the plant with water a couple times per day & miracle grow mixture once a week. Then hope for the best. .... The misting & miracle grow will foliar feed the plant while new roots regrow. The sand is very fast draining and will not hold water other than that which clings to the sand surface. ... Also the pot MUST drain all excess water out. ..... This is iffy with a small TC plant, but about the only chance the little plant has to recover.

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BrownEyesBlueJava

Update on these?

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1. Orinoco
2. Manzano
3. Gros Michel?
4. Mahoi "Double"?
5. Namwa?
6. Other