Removing Water Suckers

buckeye5755 · 07-16-2009, 07:31 PM

Hey everyone, I see all these threads about removing Sword Suckers to ensure both the mother and pup survive, and I also see the "Remove Water Suckers immediately". My question is, what method do you use? Do you cut them off at a 90 degree angle to the mother plant, or just clip them beneath the soil? I have two I believe are Water suckers on a Gran Nain I have had for 1 month and is only about 16 inches P Stem, possibly now a third, as a Sucker is coming up that is less than an inch tall.

I included pictures to see if I am right in identifying them as Water Suckers.

Patty in Wisc · 07-16-2009, 08:14 PM

Those are water suckers. I'd wait before cutting them off. Give them a chance to develope their own roots. When you cut it off,cut close to mother so you get some of the corm.

Lagniappe · 07-16-2009, 08:22 PM

Or just leave them, until things get real crowded.
Nice diagram, Patty.

Patty in Wisc · 07-16-2009, 08:37 PM

Someone here posted it & I saved it. I'm thinking - or thought it was you Pete(?)

Lagniappe · 07-16-2009, 08:54 PM

Not me. I like it, nice and simple with a definate direction.

buckeye5755 · 07-16-2009, 09:15 PM

Thanks for the diagram Patty. However, if they do prove to be Water Suckers, and I just want to get rid of them so they are not taking nutrients and space from the mother, should I really cut off part of the mother's corm? Doesn't that sound like a waste?

adrift · 07-16-2009, 09:24 PM

Yes, those look like water suckers. I'd be surprised by a 16 inch tall banana sending up a sword. (Unless momma was, say a "Truly Tiny" or something like that.) Since momma is so small she isn't going to provide that much shade, the pup has no need to race for the sky, and she hasn't the energy for it anyway.

A sword has just the teenciest of leaves until it gets maybe 12-18 inches tall. Even taller on big varieties. They look like a spear tip with barbs on it. Sorta like a young bamboo shoot coming up.

May I presume that you are a new, recreational grower without any dreams of owning a banana plantation in the next year? Then leave the pup(s) alone until they get some size, have time to grow some roots, then separate if you need to in order to expand your plantings.

LilRaverBoi · 07-16-2009, 09:49 PM

Someone please correct me on this if I'm wrong....but water suckers are perfectly fine to grow into new plants. Sword suckers display more rapid growth (which is why they are used solely by plantation owners) but water suckers will grow up to be good plants as well, right? I'd say leave em on there....your plant isn't on a plantation, and the pups aren't draining the growth of the main plant.

Patty in Wisc · 07-16-2009, 10:25 PM

Water pups grow as good as sword pups after a couple months -- no diff really. If you want to just cut it & throw it away, then don't cut into mamma corm. I have several pups growing in seperate pots that are growing well. You can always sell or use for a trade. It's really not taking much energy away from mamma - it being so small. Ppl cut pups off when mamma is getting ready to flower & fruit, to give it more energy.
I'd wait & then plant the pups (I hate to see them get thrown out

).

Lagniappe · 07-16-2009, 10:31 PM

You would probably need to cut that portion of corm away regardless, or [the pup] may grow right back.

adrift · 07-17-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRaverBoi

Someone please correct me on this if I'm wrong....but water suckers are perfectly fine to grow into new plants.

That is my experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRaverBoi

Sword suckers display more rapid growth (which is why they are used solely by plantation owners) but water suckers will grow up to be good plants as well, right? I'd say leave em on there....your plant isn't on a plantation, and the pups aren't draining the growth of the main plant.

Yeah. The OP is in Ohio. I grew up in Michigan and after college I lived just north of Indianapolis, IN for 14 years. So I know the climate of Ohio. He isn't going to be competing with Dole or Chiquita unless he takes that pot and heads down to Costa Rica, or Belize or something. So he might as well enjoy growing the tropical plants and not worrying about how strong momma will be 6 or 9 months from now ... 6 months from now, momma is going to be stripped of leaves and in a dark corner of the basement or in a pot in the living room begging for more light.

I'd get the pups bigger, then potted up separate, and then come winter he will have several (genetically identical) candidates to make it through the winter. He can keep one inside, one in the garage, one in the basement, etc. and learn how to over-winter them and the re-acclimate them to outdoor conditions come spring. Once those kinks are worked out he can push them for the 2 or more years it will take to fruit at his latitude.

adrift · 07-17-2009, 12:26 PM

Since you weren't sure how to ID them, here are some comparison photos.

First, a young Raja Puri in a pot (back stem). It is sending up a "water sucker" type with round leaves and a short spacing between leaves (near stem).

Here are some in ground Ice Cream nanners. I got in in January (+/-) of '08 as a little TC start, it was soon defoliated the first time by our cat, while being kept it in a pot until after the winter freezes. This has been in ground since spring (March +/-) of '08. The freeze of '09 stripped it of all leaves for the second time. (See that in my gallery). (The biggest, brownest p-stem is the one fruiting right now (look in my gallery for that, too).

See how a mature mat sends up a pup FAST. They don't grow much of a leaf, at first, they are just going up. They are very pointed at the top and the leaf blades themselves are more pointed than round.

Small one just came out that day:

Here is one just a little older:

A view of a pup on the back of the mat:

Rmplmnz · 07-17-2009, 12:55 PM

With water suckers I just grab and yank and usually they do not grow back (almost all of the plant material is removed). Takes about 2 seconds...then in to the compost pile.

LilRaverBoi · 07-17-2009, 01:00 PM

Dang, Rmplmnz....that's like a banana abortion or something! EEK! So do they grow once they're in the compost pile? Cause I wouldn't be surprised! Actually my first bananas were ones that grew up after a 'dead' banana's roots were chopped up and composted at my workplace at the time.

Rmplmnz · 07-17-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilRaverBoi

Dang, Rmplmnz....that's like a banana abortion or something! EEK! So do they grow once they're in the compost pile? Cause I wouldn't be surprised! Actually my first bananas were ones that grew up after a 'dead' banana's roots were chopped up and composted at my workplace at the time.

Not quite the analogy I was trying to convey.:-)

No..usually water suckers do not grow..what corm there is gets shredded when I yank it out...

buckeye5755 · 07-17-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrift

That is my experience.

Yeah. The OP is in Ohio. I grew up in Michigan and after college I lived just north of Indianapolis, IN for 14 years. So I know the climate of Ohio. He isn't going to be competing with Dole or Chiquita unless he takes that pot and heads down to Costa Rica, or Belize or something. So he might as well enjoy growing the tropical plants and not worrying about how strong momma will be 6 or 9 months from now ... 6 months from now, momma is going to be stripped of leaves and in a dark corner of the basement or in a pot in the living room begging for more light.

I'd get the pups bigger, then potted up separate, and then come winter he will have several (genetically identical) candidates to make it through the winter. He can keep one inside, one in the garage, one in the basement, etc. and learn how to over-winter them and the re-acclimate them to outdoor conditions come spring. Once those kinks are worked out he can push them for the 2 or more years it will take to fruit at his latitude.

Actually, they are going into the Garage under a 600 Watt Metal Halide/HPS system, so hopefully they get enough light! I was asking originally because my goal is to Fruit them, so I want to have the least amount of stress as possible, and having them in a Container their whole life will already do that to an extent.

The way it sounds like from you guys, is that it won't bother the main plant now, and to just seperate later. I think I'll go that route, and then just give them away once they are viable themselves. Thanks guys!

07-16-2009, 07:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
buckeye5755 buckeye5755's Photo Gallery Location: Columbus, Ohio Find me on the map! Zone: 6 Name: David Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 106 BananaBucks : 33,585 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 40 Times Was Thanked 71 Times in 39 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 17 Times	Removing Water Suckers Hey everyone, I see all these threads about removing Sword Suckers to ensure both the mother and pup survive, and I also see the "Remove Water Suckers immediately". My question is, what method do you use? Do you cut them off at a 90 degree angle to the mother plant, or just clip them beneath the soil? I have two I believe are Water suckers on a Gran Nain I have had for 1 month and is only about 16 inches P Stem, possibly now a third, as a Sucker is coming up that is less than an inch tall. I included pictures to see if I am right in identifying them as Water Suckers.

07-16-2009, 08:14 PM	#2 (permalink)
Patty in Wisc tropical nut Patty in Wisc's Photo Gallery Zone: 5 Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,115 BananaBucks : 346,483 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,946 Times Was Thanked 2,510 Times in 1,203 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 69 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Those are water suckers. I'd wait before cutting them off. Give them a chance to develope their own roots. When you cut it off,cut close to mother so you get some of the corm. __________________ Got a lite? Patty ____ Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.

07-16-2009, 08:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lagniappe Lagniappe's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,111 BananaBucks : 249,935 Feedback: 22 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,378 Times Was Thanked 1,402 Times in 558 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 535 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Or just leave them, until things get real crowded. Nice diagram, Patty.

07-16-2009, 08:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
Patty in Wisc tropical nut Patty in Wisc's Photo Gallery Zone: 5 Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,115 BananaBucks : 346,483 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,946 Times Was Thanked 2,510 Times in 1,203 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 69 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Someone here posted it & I saved it. I'm thinking - or thought it was you Pete(?) __________________ Got a lite? Patty ____ Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.

07-16-2009, 08:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
Lagniappe Lagniappe's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,111 BananaBucks : 249,935 Feedback: 22 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,378 Times Was Thanked 1,402 Times in 558 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 535 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Not me. I like it, nice and simple with a definate direction.

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07-16-2009, 09:15 PM	#6 (permalink)
buckeye5755 buckeye5755's Photo Gallery Location: Columbus, Ohio Find me on the map! Zone: 6 Name: David Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 106 BananaBucks : 33,585 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 40 Times Was Thanked 71 Times in 39 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 17 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Thanks for the diagram Patty. However, if they do prove to be Water Suckers, and I just want to get rid of them so they are not taking nutrients and space from the mother, should I really cut off part of the mother's corm? Doesn't that sound like a waste?

07-16-2009, 09:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
adrift adrift's Photo Gallery Location: Central FL Zone: 9a Name: KJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 174 BananaBucks : 17,763 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 625 Times Was Thanked 197 Times in 87 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 422 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Yes, those look like water suckers. I'd be surprised by a 16 inch tall banana sending up a sword. (Unless momma was, say a "Truly Tiny" or something like that.) Since momma is so small she isn't going to provide that much shade, the pup has no need to race for the sky, and she hasn't the energy for it anyway. A sword has just the teenciest of leaves until it gets maybe 12-18 inches tall. Even taller on big varieties. They look like a spear tip with barbs on it. Sorta like a young bamboo shoot coming up. May I presume that you are a new, recreational grower without any dreams of owning a banana plantation in the next year? Then leave the pup(s) alone until they get some size, have time to grow some roots, then separate if you need to in order to expand your plantings. __________________ I've got to stop asking people, "How stupid can you be." People are taking it as a challenge.

07-16-2009, 09:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
LilRaverBoi Nanner Time! LilRaverBoi's Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Find me on the map! Zone: 5 Name: Bryan Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,937 BananaBucks : 118,897 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 534 Times Was Thanked 2,243 Times in 1,245 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 855 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Someone please correct me on this if I'm wrong....but water suckers are perfectly fine to grow into new plants. Sword suckers display more rapid growth (which is why they are used solely by plantation owners) but water suckers will grow up to be good plants as well, right? I'd say leave em on there....your plant isn't on a plantation, and the pups aren't draining the growth of the main plant. __________________ BANANA RAVE! Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top! lilraverboi@genxglow.com RIP Tog Tan. We love you and will always remember you! I'm Bryan with a Y! There is no 'I' in BRYAN!

07-16-2009, 10:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Patty in Wisc tropical nut Patty in Wisc's Photo Gallery Zone: 5 Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,115 BananaBucks : 346,483 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,946 Times Was Thanked 2,510 Times in 1,203 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 69 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Water pups grow as good as sword pups after a couple months -- no diff really. If you want to just cut it & throw it away, then don't cut into mamma corm. I have several pups growing in seperate pots that are growing well. You can always sell or use for a trade. It's really not taking much energy away from mamma - it being so small. Ppl cut pups off when mamma is getting ready to flower & fruit, to give it more energy. I'd wait & then plant the pups (I hate to see them get thrown out ). __________________ Got a lite? Patty ____ Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.

07-16-2009, 10:31 PM	#10 (permalink)
Lagniappe Lagniappe's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,111 BananaBucks : 249,935 Feedback: 22 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,378 Times Was Thanked 1,402 Times in 558 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 535 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers You would probably need to cut that portion of corm away regardless, or [the pup] may grow right back.

07-17-2009, 12:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
adrift adrift's Photo Gallery Location: Central FL Zone: 9a Name: KJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 174 BananaBucks : 17,763 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 625 Times Was Thanked 197 Times in 87 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 422 Times	Pup comparison Since you weren't sure how to ID them, here are some comparison photos. First, a young Raja Puri in a pot (back stem). It is sending up a "water sucker" type with round leaves and a short spacing between leaves (near stem). Here are some in ground Ice Cream nanners. I got in in January (+/-) of '08 as a little TC start, it was soon defoliated the first time by our cat, while being kept it in a pot until after the winter freezes. This has been in ground since spring (March +/-) of '08. The freeze of '09 stripped it of all leaves for the second time. (See that in my gallery). (The biggest, brownest p-stem is the one fruiting right now (look in my gallery for that, too). See how a mature mat sends up a pup FAST. They don't grow much of a leaf, at first, they are just going up. They are very pointed at the top and the leaf blades themselves are more pointed than round. Small one just came out that day: Here is one just a little older: A view of a pup on the back of the mat: __________________ I've got to stop asking people, "How stupid can you be." People are taking it as a challenge. Last edited by adrift : 07-17-2009 at 12:35 PM.

07-17-2009, 12:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rmplmnz Banana Patch Attendent Rmplmnz's Photo Gallery Location: Tampa, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 10 Name: Rmplmnz Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,448 BananaBucks : 119,543 Feedback: 40 / 100% Said "Thanks" 2,246 Times Was Thanked 2,348 Times in 636 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 36 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers With water suckers I just grab and yank and usually they do not grow back (almost all of the plant material is removed). Takes about 2 seconds...then in to the compost pile.

07-17-2009, 01:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
LilRaverBoi Nanner Time! LilRaverBoi's Photo Gallery Location: Cedar Rapids, IA Find me on the map! Zone: 5 Name: Bryan Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,937 BananaBucks : 118,897 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 534 Times Was Thanked 2,243 Times in 1,245 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 855 Times	Re: Removing Water Suckers Dang, Rmplmnz....that's like a banana abortion or something! EEK! So do they grow once they're in the compost pile? Cause I wouldn't be surprised! Actually my first bananas were ones that grew up after a 'dead' banana's roots were chopped up and composted at my workplace at the time. __________________ BANANA RAVE! Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top! lilraverboi@genxglow.com RIP Tog Tan. We love you and will always remember you! I'm Bryan with a Y! There is no 'I' in BRYAN!

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