What to add for soil mix

ewitte · 09-21-2009, 12:59 PM

Usually buy a mix but need about 31cf so trying to do this for a decent price.
Here is what I have.

would like to use these as a base
Soil Conditioner - badically really fine pine bark - 2cf
Composted cow manure - 2cf

other left overs
~2qt perlite
~1cf peat moss

I would love to throw a lot of perlite in there but its about $4-5 for a very small amount (4qt). Possibly some sand but I do not recall seeing sterile sand.

sbl · 09-21-2009, 01:38 PM

Peat moss is a common base in most potting soils and is relatively cheap. I have used composted cow manure as a potting soil directly--it is also pretty cheap, but quality is highy variable depending on manufacturer.

ewitte · 09-21-2009, 01:44 PM

Yes peat is pretty cheap.

1 part composted manure
1 part soil conditioner
1 part peat

Sound good for this "container"

john_ny · 09-21-2009, 02:02 PM

You should be able to get the perlite a lot cheaper than that at a grower/greenhouse supply.

Richard · 09-21-2009, 03:36 PM

A novice grower should buy a high-quality mix so that they learn what a good soil looks like. The "Sunshine" / "SunGro" brand is nation-wide brand. You can get the 1.5 cu.ft. "General Purpose" mix at retail centers and the 4 cu.ft. (and 55 cu.ft.!) compressed bales of "Sunshine #2" at agricultural supply stores.

When I make a mix for a long-term container, I use:
2 parts Humic Compost
1 part Perlite
1 part Horticultural Sand
1 part Scoria (1/4 inch diameter "hard" pumice")
1 part Sphagnum Peat Moss
1 part Worm Castings

For short term container (Annuals, Nursery stock), I leave out the Scoria.

ewitte · 09-22-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

A novice grower should buy a high-quality mix so that they learn what a good soil looks like.

If they wanted it that way they wouldn't charge 4x the price with most likely less organic matter

I've been buying mix for my containers but this needs so much it would be cost prohibative. I already have more than 16cf of mix in there and its only about 40% full!

Richard · 09-22-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewitte

If they wanted it that way they wouldn't charge 4x the price with most likely less organic matter

I've been buying mix for my containers but this needs so much it would be cost prohibative. I already have more than 16cf of mix in there and its only about 40% full!

A compressed 4 cu.ft. bale of Sunshine #2 yields about 8 cu.ft. of soil. That works out to about $2.75 per cu.ft.

ewitte · 09-23-2009, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

A compressed 4 cu.ft. bale of Sunshine #2 yields about 8 cu.ft. of soil. That works out to about $2.75 per cu.ft.

I've never seen most of what you recommend in the stores. Right now I'm around $1.70/cf even with about 15% of the expensive perlite.

EDIT: I did find someone selling sunshine products about 40 miles away. The cost of my time and gas would not make it worthwhile.

Richard · 09-23-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewitte

I did find someone selling sunshine products about 40 miles away.

Seems about right. Agricultural supply stores are less frequent than retail stores.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewitte

Right now I'm around $1.70/cf even with about 15% of the expensive perlite.

That's pretty good !

Here's what the agricultural suppliers in my area are charging:
Humic Compost - $6 per cubic yard
Perlite - $6 per 4 cu.ft.
Horticultural Sand - $12 per cubic yard
Scoria - $21 per cubic yard
Sphagnum Peat Moss - $17 per 4 cu.ft. compressed bale, expands to 8 cubic feet
Worm Castings - $175 per cubic yard

And for wholesale soil mixes:
Sunshine General Purpose 1.5 cu.ft. bag - $9
Sunshine #2 4 cu.ft. compressed bale - $23
A1 Soils "Garden Soil" - $40 per cubic yard.

ewitte · 09-23-2009, 09:21 AM

Well composted cow manure is only $1.79 for 2cf and $2.70 for 2cf of the soil conditioner (fine pine bark). Lots of cows in Texas maybe why it is so cheap lol.

djmb74 · 09-23-2009, 03:21 PM

I prefer vermiculite over perlite...

ewitte · 09-23-2009, 05:17 PM

Never used it, I should try it out sometime.

djmb74 · 09-23-2009, 05:49 PM

vermiculite doesn't float to the top or blow away like perlite does...

ewitte · 09-26-2009, 07:18 PM

lol this feels bottomless. I was off on my estimate of 31cf, its slightly over 40. Thats about 300 gallon and its wide not deep so the banana should love it. I'm going to top off with another 2 bags af compost to fill out the holes and update the picture.

BTW no vermiculite and I use up the entire supply of perlite at two Lowes stores. Which wasn't much 4 bags one place and 2 at another location.

Richard · 09-27-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewitte

lol this feels bottomless...

Give it a thorough watering and see how much the soil mass condenses. You might hit 50 cf yet!

planetrj · 09-27-2009, 01:39 AM

I know some people may disagree here, but I've become 100% Peat Moss free, just because of the negative environmental impact, plus throwing off the balance of the ecosystem. I haven't found an issue with not having Peat in the mix. I hope that more people consider giving up Peat Moss just for that same reason, if not just for the sake of the environment.

Richard · 09-27-2009, 08:55 AM

The Canadian sphagnum peat moss is a renewable resource, harvested each year when the snow receeds from the lesser Slave lakes and across the north. The environmental concern is with the non-renewable peat moss harvested in the southern U.S.

However, fine-grain humic compost provided by greenery recycling centers across the U.S. is far less expensive (free for local residents) and a good substitute. Depending what it is made from, the fibers will break down faster and hence adding horticultural sand to the mix is a good idea.

djmb74 · 09-27-2009, 11:09 AM

I agree on doing what you can to help the environment. but until the nursery business makes a change, backyard gardening will not have much if any impact on the peat moss industry...

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetrj

I know some people may disagree here, but I've become 100% Peat Moss free, just because of the negative environmental impact, plus throwing off the balance of the ecosystem. I haven't found an issue with not having Peat in the mix. I hope that more people consider giving up Peat Moss just for that same reason, if not just for the sake of the environment.

ewitte · 09-27-2009, 03:08 PM

This is after being watered. Added a few flowers for my wife.

planetrj · 09-27-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

fine-grain humic compost provided by greenery recycling centers across the U.S. is far less expensive (free for local residents) and a good substitute. Depending what it is made from, the fibers will break down faster and hence adding horticultural sand to the mix is a good idea.

Richard! Exactly my experience... thanks for pointing this out. I now add in a 'tea' I make from Milorganite. It comes from Wisconsin, but I get it at Ace Hardware, and it really makes them take off!!

09-21-2009, 12:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
ewitte ewitte's Photo Gallery Location: Houston Zone: 9 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 449 BananaBucks : 50,794 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 194 Times in 107 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	What to add for soil mix Usually buy a mix but need about 31cf so trying to do this for a decent price. Here is what I have. would like to use these as a base Soil Conditioner - badically really fine pine bark - 2cf Composted cow manure - 2cf other left overs ~2qt perlite ~1cf peat moss I would love to throw a lot of perlite in there but its about $4-5 for a very small amount (4qt). Possibly some sand but I do not recall seeing sterile sand.

09-21-2009, 01:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
sbl sbl's Photo Gallery Location: Pensacola, FL Find me on the map! Zone: 8/9 Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,013 BananaBucks : 67,273 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 177 Times Was Thanked 732 Times in 395 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 154 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix Peat moss is a common base in most potting soils and is relatively cheap. I have used composted cow manure as a potting soil directly--it is also pretty cheap, but quality is highy variable depending on manufacturer.

09-21-2009, 01:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
ewitte ewitte's Photo Gallery Location: Houston Zone: 9 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 449 BananaBucks : 50,794 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 194 Times in 107 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix Yes peat is pretty cheap. 1 part composted manure 1 part soil conditioner 1 part peat Sound good for this "container"

09-21-2009, 02:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
john_ny Member john_ny's Photo Gallery Location: Staten Island, NY - southernmost county in NY State. Find me on the map! Zone: USDA7- Sunset34 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,014 BananaBucks : 623,439 Feedback: 5 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,057 Times Was Thanked 2,284 Times in 832 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 37 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix You should be able to get the perlite a lot cheaper than that at a grower/greenhouse supply. __________________ John

09-21-2009, 03:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 561,753 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix A novice grower should buy a high-quality mix so that they learn what a good soil looks like. The "Sunshine" / "SunGro" brand is nation-wide brand. You can get the 1.5 cu.ft. "General Purpose" mix at retail centers and the 4 cu.ft. (and 55 cu.ft.!) compressed bales of "Sunshine #2" at agricultural supply stores. When I make a mix for a long-term container, I use: 2 parts Humic Compost 1 part Perlite 1 part Horticultural Sand 1 part Scoria (1/4 inch diameter "hard" pumice") 1 part Sphagnum Peat Moss 1 part Worm Castings For short term container (Annuals, Nursery stock), I leave out the Scoria. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

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09-23-2009, 09:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
ewitte ewitte's Photo Gallery Location: Houston Zone: 9 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 449 BananaBucks : 50,794 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 194 Times in 107 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix Well composted cow manure is only $1.79 for 2cf and $2.70 for 2cf of the soil conditioner (fine pine bark). Lots of cows in Texas maybe why it is so cheap lol.

09-23-2009, 03:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
djmb74 djmb74's Photo Gallery Location: Longwood. Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Martin Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 631 BananaBucks : 236,909 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 334 Times Was Thanked 642 Times in 243 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 130 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix I prefer vermiculite over perlite... __________________ PEOPLE WILL FORGET WHAT YOU SAID. PEOPLE WILL FORGET WHAT YOU DID. *BUT PEOPLE WILL NEVER FORGET HOW YOU MADE THEM FEEL!

09-23-2009, 05:17 PM	#12 (permalink)
ewitte ewitte's Photo Gallery Location: Houston Zone: 9 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 449 BananaBucks : 50,794 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 194 Times in 107 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix Never used it, I should try it out sometime.

09-23-2009, 05:49 PM	#13 (permalink)
djmb74 djmb74's Photo Gallery Location: Longwood. Florida Find me on the map! Zone: 9b Name: Martin Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 631 BananaBucks : 236,909 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 334 Times Was Thanked 642 Times in 243 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 130 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix vermiculite doesn't float to the top or blow away like perlite does... __________________ PEOPLE WILL FORGET WHAT YOU SAID. PEOPLE WILL FORGET WHAT YOU DID. *BUT PEOPLE WILL NEVER FORGET HOW YOU MADE THEM FEEL!

09-26-2009, 07:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
ewitte ewitte's Photo Gallery Location: Houston Zone: 9 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 449 BananaBucks : 50,794 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 194 Times in 107 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix lol this feels bottomless. I was off on my estimate of 31cf, its slightly over 40. Thats about 300 gallon and its wide not deep so the banana should love it. I'm going to top off with another 2 bags af compost to fill out the holes and update the picture. BTW no vermiculite and I use up the entire supply of perlite at two Lowes stores. Which wasn't much 4 bags one place and 2 at another location.

09-27-2009, 01:39 AM	#16 (permalink)
planetrj Planetrj Hawaii Z11b planetrj's Photo Gallery Location: Hilo area, Hawaii Find me on the map! Zone: 11b Name: Kaleo Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 354 BananaBucks : 26,753 Feedback: 1 / 100% Said "Thanks" 135 Times Was Thanked 198 Times in 109 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 37 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix I know some people may disagree here, but I've become 100% Peat Moss free, just because of the negative environmental impact, plus throwing off the balance of the ecosystem. I haven't found an issue with not having Peat in the mix. I hope that more people consider giving up Peat Moss just for that same reason, if not just for the sake of the environment. __________________ you will never have enough bananas ^_^

09-27-2009, 08:55 AM	#17 (permalink)
Richard un-Retired Richard's Photo Gallery Location: Vista, CA Find me on the map! Zone: USDA 10b Name: Richard Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 9,674 BananaBucks : 561,753 Feedback: 9 / 100% Said "Thanks" 3,636 Times Was Thanked 12,543 Times in 4,721 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 1,685 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix The Canadian sphagnum peat moss is a renewable resource, harvested each year when the snow receeds from the lesser Slave lakes and across the north. The environmental concern is with the non-renewable peat moss harvested in the southern U.S. However, fine-grain humic compost provided by greenery recycling centers across the U.S. is far less expensive (free for local residents) and a good substitute. Depending what it is made from, the fibers will break down faster and hence adding horticultural sand to the mix is a good idea. __________________ Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

09-27-2009, 03:08 PM	#19 (permalink)
ewitte ewitte's Photo Gallery Location: Houston Zone: 9 Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 449 BananaBucks : 50,794 Feedback: 0 / 0% Said "Thanks" 0 Times Was Thanked 194 Times in 107 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 0 Times	Re: What to add for soil mix This is after being watered. Added a few flowers for my wife.

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