Richard

Today I received a box of hardwood cuttings from the ARS for a joint project. My first task is to get as many rooted as possible. Here's a little pictorial:

Cuttings right out of the box, a bundle of twigs from each of the nine plants.



Loading moistened soil into the 3-inch peat pots the cuttings will be rooted in. Putting a colander into a larger metal bowl to catch the water, I fill the colander with soil, pour water over it, then squeeze out the excess water. A full colander will fill up 8 peat pots with soil. The spray bottle is used regularly during the entire process to keep the cuttings from drying out too much.



Here's the agricultural inspector performing his official duty ...



The cuttings have been cut in half, then trimmed up so that at least 2 nodes are in the bottom 2.5 inches that will be inserted in the soil. The ends are wetted, then dusted with Rootone, and placed in the peat pots.



To avoid removing too much Rootone when pressing the cutting into the soil, I first use an extra cutting to press pre-made holes into the pots.



And here they are, ready to start. Afterwards I will put the plastic dome over the tray to maintain humidity and place the whole thing on a heat mat to keep the temperature in the mid-70s F.



And as I type, they are sitting next to me being serenaded by Irene Kral "Kral Space" ...

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cactus6103

Looks good. I rooted some ficus trees years ago just messing around. My heat was setting them on top of my old furnace and it worked! Good luck with them and keep us posted when something happens. Red

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harveyc

Still haven't heard word on my request, but I'll be driving there tomorrow to pick up some other things and I'm hoping they'll have my other things for me! I can't complain, though, because they have been most helpful to me and are over-worked, under-staffed, under-funded. It's a valuable resource that is unknown to most of the country.

Harvey

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Richard

For those who would like to learn more: the ARS-Davis site we have been refering to is one of several USDA Germplasm repositories located in the U.S. and abroad. Each repository specializes in certain plant groups. If you are looking for plant material from a specific plant, you can look it up at the GRIN Taxonomy site. If instead you want to see what is at a particular repository (poorly maintained by some sites), start at the GRIN Plant Collections web page.

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harveyc

I picked up my materials yesterday, cuttings of 5 pomegranate cultivars and 3 fig cultivars, along with the pomegranate trees for my formal trial I'm working on with USDA. I started out cool this morning, acutally had light frost on part of my farm, but ended up reaching about 80F today and it was warm work to be planting my trees. My pomegranate trial is 11 cultivars, 8 trees each, and will be my first participation in such a project and I've found it very interesting so far.

I noticed yesterday at Davis that they had loquats and I did not realize they were a repository for these. I looked at some of the tags but don't remember the names, none were familar (maybe 'Tanaka' was one). I was told their collection is pretty small.

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Richard

Below are two photos of my fruit hardwood cuttings in their enclosure, one with the "hood" on and the other with the hood off.

Each day when the room temperature is close to the soil temperature, I remove the hood and check on the cuttings. Today I found an outbreak of white fluffy mold growing on one node of one of the fig cuttings. I wiped it off with a tissue and then sprayed it and the surrounding cuttings lightly with a fungicide. I also removed excess moisture from the inside of the hood to lower the humidity before putting it back on.

The fungicide I used was calcium polysulfate. Normally you would use 3 Tbsp per gallon -- I scaled this down to 3/4 tsp per cup, and then cut the dilution further to 1/2 tsp per cup. This works out to a 0.3% solution.

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chong

Richard,

I've been looking into sources for scionwood cuttings for rare plants myself, and was wondering how long cuttings would remain viable en route. These cuttings you just received, where are they from and how long did they get to you from the time they were cut from the plant, do you think? And since some of the plants I would be interested in may also be propagated by rooting cuttings, I could use the cuttings to root outright, or use them for grafting. The thing I'm afraid of is that they may dry out in transit if it takes too long to get here. Some sources are in Thailand, and some are in Guam.

And since you appear to have done some "importing" (domestically) of cuttings, do you know of any sources where I can get/buy rare fruit cuttings for grafting and/or rooting? Plants like Malay apple, wax jambu, lansones, seedless sugar apple, sweet guanabana, mamey sapote, ylang-ylang, etc.

(Do you pay that inspector anything "under the table" so he/she will take it easy on you?)

Thanks for any feedback.

harveyc

Chong, I can answer some of the questions but nothing about sources for the tropical things you mentioned.

Richard listed the GRIN site above. These materials were supplied by the USDA repository out of Davis, California as part of their mission. A phytosanitary certificate accompanies the material and all regulations are complied with, nothing under the table is needed. I suspect most material was collected sometime between December and February and then mailed by FedEx with delivery in a couple of days. I picked mine up in person. Pomegranates and figs can last much longer than that, if needed. I helped as a volunteer on a project at Davis that involved some budding of frozen pomegranate material to see if long-term storage could be done this way. The pomegranate material was "fried" and completely dead and none of those buds took but some that were frozen at higher temperatures did "okay." I don't think that would work for everygreen plants like you're talking about.

Good luck,

Harvey

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chong

Thanks Harvey,
I thought there may some relationship between the Inspector and Richard, because he was sniffing around, while Richard was preparing the rooting media and chamber for the cuttings. But I guess everything is on the up and up. (LOL)

So, those cuttings may be from as far back as December? They must be in dormancy then, and refrigerated? I was hoping to get an idea how long the cuttings would last if they were air shipped from Thailand, for example. What preparations would be needed to be reasonably assured of their viability for as much as a week, say? Or, even for three days? Would putting the base of the cuttings in those test tube-like vessel, that single flower stems are put in, with water, improve the chances of survival?

Thanks again.

Richard

Chong, all of those fruits are being grown by members of the California Rare Fruit Growers; like myself, Joe Real, and many other members here. I know one member who by himself is growing all of those in San Diego. You could join and start receiving their bimonthly publication with lots of sources in it, or just post on this site under "Other Plants" (one fruit at a time) and you'll start getting feedback.

To answer your second question: The cuttings I have discussed in this thread so far have come from ARS-Davis. I will also be receiving plant material from other sites this year (see GRIN Plant Collections and GRIN Taxonomy site). The mission of the entire USDA repository program is to provide plant material for R&D -- so you have to be willing to provide them with some plan of mutual interest: in my case an event log of experiences growing them, any breeding I may do, and eventually supplying any repository request for cuttings and seeds from the plants I've propagated.

Your third question about agricultural regulations: plants from the USDA repositories are shipped with a "Certificate of Quarantine Compliance". It is no cost to them (or the receiver) because they are the inspection agency. Most nurseries and individuals have to go through quite a bit of paperwork to produce a "Cert", and they either charge you for it, or don't bother to ship to areas where one is required, or just ship it and hope for the best. This has been discussed in several threads including International shipping requirement for bananas and Interstate shipment of plant material .

Your fourth question about conditions of materials received: For cuttings, if they are taken at the right growth stage, cleaned and treated with a light fungicide, moisture-wrapped, sealed, and shipped "next day" FedEx or similiar early in the week then you will have great plant material. In fact for any kind of plant material, shipping "next day" delivery early in the week is great. My experiences with the quality of material from USDA so far has been good. Once you start inquiring about specific plants, we can hopefully give you feedback on our experiences with them.

Unasked question #1: Why doesn't the CRFG have a site like Bananas.org? Answer: They have dismissed the idea many times stating that most CRFG members are not interested.

Unasked question #2: Are the popular fruits of Sweet Guanabana (Annona muricata, soursop) safe to eat? Answer: no, and neither is the drug "Graviola" or the drink "Guanabana juice" made from this fruit.

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harveyc

Richard, are you aware that the statewide organization of CRFG chapter has a forum? It has very little participation, unfortunately. It can be found at CRFG Bulletin Board :: Index.

Many chapters of CRFG have Yahoo groups and I've joined two other chapters besides my local Sacramento chapter largely because they have active discussion groups that often end up being more valuable than the state group's forum, though most of the discussion is often around temperate fruits for the two NorCal chapters I belong to. I sometimes wish all the chapters would get together and just have their discussion groups as part of the state forum.

While I like forums better, it does seem that "groups" such as those hosted by Yahoo end up having more participation because many members sign up to get e-mails of all posts and this solicits their response whereas they forget to visit a forum much of the time.

Harvey

Harvey

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Richard

Yes, but when I said "like Bananas.org" I meant the functionality that exists here.

As for yahoo groups, email circulars, newsgroups, etc.: we might as well go back to using TALK on arpanet.

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Richard

Oh now I know which inspector you are talking about -- my cat! HAHAHAHA!

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harveyc

Richard, I very much prefer forums and Jarred has done a great job here and it's one of the best forums I participate in (probably the best, but my brain is too tired to say anything with certainty right now).

That said, I get a great deal of valuable information from several Yahoo groups I particpate in and even cloudforest. Anything that helps people share their knowledge and experiences is valuable and different people have different methods of communicating that suits them.

If the CRFG bulletin board had greater participation there maybe would be some support to expand the features. I don't think changing the format would help, I think the problem is that CRFG members are too divided with their own areas and interests.

Harvey

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chong

Thank you, Richard. I used to be a member of CRFG between 1975 and 1982, but dropped out because my work took me all over the country, and had no time to read them, much less implement some of the things that I was interested in. I am considering joining again, if only for the seed exchange. I used to get more seed types than I ever sent.

Second question - I understood that.

Third question - The Inspector that I was referring to was the one in the third picture of your first post! Can't you guys take a joke?

Fourth question - That's exactly the type of answer I was looking for. I understand that with plants that are in dormancy will be able to last longer than evergreens for shipping time. But what about for plants like avocado, guava, and citrus, how long will they survive for shipment? I've brought avocados here but they were potted, and of course, they were okay. But what if I were to start rootstock now, and when they are ready, get some scionwood from FL or PR? I get plants from there in 2 days via Priority Mail and they go by weight. But if I were to get scionwood only, I'd get more cuttings in a Flat Rate Box than plants, and I could even use Express Mail.

Unasked #1: They were wrong, weren't they? Besides, I know of this group called Bananas.org, anyway. Only wished that I'd known about them since 2004 when I was in DelRay Beach for 10 months, then 6 months in L.A. in '05, 9 months in MS and LA in '05-'06.

Unasked #2: Unsafe to eat?????? Whoaaa . . . that's a big surprise to me!!!!! Maybe shocking, even. They make awesome ice cream. One of the houses we lived in for 5 years, in the Philippines, had 2 Guanabana (Guyabano in the Phils.) trees. Almost like shrubs, only 6-7 ft tall, you could pick the fruits without climbing up. Over those 5 years, I probably consumed over a dozen of them babies. And they're not small, either. Is the source of info for this, available on some website? It's a very popular fruit in the Philippines and most tropical countries, especially, Central and South America. Occasionally, I even see a half-gallon drink of them at Costco.

Richard

Chong,
Cuttings are best when they are cut, prepared, and shipped all on the same day for next-day delivery. I wouldn't want anything else.

Annona muricata is rated "the best tasting tropical fruit" by many fruit experts. Annona muricata is also a leading cause of dementia, specifically Tau syndrome in the tropics. It contains high concentrations of annonacins which when consumed on a semi-regular basis in doses of 25 mg or more destroy neural processes in mammal brains over the course of a few to several years. Here's a frightening fact: there are people in the U.S. taking the herbal remedy Graviola at doses of 600 mg of annonacins daily.

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chong

Talking about CRFG, when I was member, I even tried to organize a local chapter here in WA. I got two responses, one from a man in Aberdeen, WA (probably 100 miles away), and another from Marysville, WA (40 miles away, the other way). Now, you're gonna need a lot of motivation to get 3 guys taking turns hosting meetings, etc. Back then I had 2 DC, 3 guavas, 2 Loquats, 1 Pomegranate, and a few others. Needless to say, it didn't happen.

But now, I'll be sending in my form shortly.

chong

That is debatable. I've heard that, too. However, many, many people, from Sotheast Asia, that will tell you in no uncertain terms that "Durian" is the best tasting tropical fruit. It does not have a sour variety like the Muricata. In Asia, it is touted "the fruit that tastes like heaven, but smells like hell!" For either of them, personally, I don't think so. I think that Philippine mango, picked close to ripeness then allowed to ripen in a room is one that can beat either of them. Ripe sweet Lansones is another.


EE-E-E-E-E-E-EKKKK! Thanks for the heads up! Maybe that's why I'm stunted and so screwed up. (Just kidding!)

chong

Just to let everyone know that although I was making light of the news from Richard, regarding the risks associated with the consumption of Guanabana, I actually am taking it very seriously. Things like this I take very seriously. Like for example, before, I used to take Tylenol quite often because I could not take Aspirin due to stomach ulcers.

Well, since the early seventies, I stopped taking them after reading of 2 professional players develop liver problems because of Tylenol. I realize that that may be extreme. But I haven't taken it till now, even after some dental work several weeks ago, my dentist told me to take Tylenol for the pain when the Novocaine wore off. I asked him for Vicoden instead but he said that I shouldn't need it. So, I asked for some Tylenol from the Boeing clinic, but never took them, and preferred to endure the pain that afternoon and through the night.

So, for me, Guanabana is out. Now, I have to check on whether this applies to other annonas family plants, e.g., Sweetsop, Atemoya, Cherimoya, etc.

Richard

Let's discuss the Annonacins issue in this thread --> Annonacins

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