Santa came to TN via California!!!! WAGGIES!!!

Randy4ut · 08-07-2009, 04:18 PM

Well, my Trachycarpus wagneranius (waggies) came from California today!!! Nice 5 gallon specimens repotted into 7 gallon pots. Now, where to plant them next spring.... What a dilemma?!?!?!?!

stumpy4700 · 08-07-2009, 04:19 PM

how cold hardy are those Randy?????? would they make it up here in nashvegas???????

Randy4ut · 08-07-2009, 04:46 PM

Stumpy, with some winter protection while still young, you should be able to...

Habit and Cultural Information

Category: Palm

Family: Arecaceae (Palmae) (Palms)

Origin: Himalaya Mountain Region (Asia)

Evergreen: Yes

Flower Color: Insignificant

Bloomtime: Not Significant

Synonyms: [Trachycarpus takil, Hort.]

Height: 12-20 feet

Width: 4-5 feet

Exposure: Sun or Shade

Seaside: Yes

Irrigation (H2O Info): Medium Water Needs

Winter Hardiness: 0-10° F

Jack Daw · 08-07-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy4700

how cold hardy are those Randy?????? would they make it up here in nashvegas???????

Well, Trachycarpus wagnerianus is as hardy as Trachycarpus fortunei, the only real difference is in growing habits. Waggie has thicker stem, shorter nodes and smaller, yet tougher leaves. It is suitable for growing in windy areas, that would otherwise tear fortunei's leaves, but other than that I think that in general it is the least beautiful palm of the Trachycarpus family.
Randy, let us know, how palms grown in California do in your zone 7. We here in Europe have palms practically only from 2 places: China and Spain. Other companies are more specialized on seed dealing, not living plants.
Neither of the palms, from China or Spain, can surivive our winters unprotected (I mean northern, much more frosty zones of my country, zones 5 to 7a). They can definitely survive with problems unprotected in my, southern region of Central Europe.
Trachycarpus wagnerianus stands here to winds of 100kmph or 65mph. Trachycarpus fortunei is damaged in such cases.

Both plants lose their foliage in -13°C (8,5°F) and die without any better protection at -17°C (1,5°F). However people grow them in central Europe in areas, where the annual minimums are about -20°C. No problems there, but they are forced to grow the palms protected and can't afford not to protect them in the winter.

Good luck boys!

saltydad · 08-07-2009, 04:53 PM

Randy- those waggies are great looking! Congrats!

Randy4ut · 08-07-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Daw

Well, Trachycarpus wagnerianus is as hardy as Trachycarpus fortunei, the only real difference is in growing habits. Waggie has thicker stem, shorter nodes and smaller, yet tougher leaves. It is suitable for growing in windy areas, that would otherwise tear fortunei's leaves, but other than that I think that in general it is the least beautiful palm of the Trachycarpus family.
Randy, let us know, how palms grown in California do in your zone 7. We here in Europe have palms practically only from 2 places: China and Spain. Other companies are more specialized on seed dealing, not living plants.
Neither of the palms, from China or Spain, can surivive our winters unprotected (I mean northern, much more frosty zones of my country, zones 5 to 7a). They can definitely survive with problems unprotected in my, southern region of Central Europe.
Trachycarpus wagnerianus stands here to winds of 100kmph or 65mph. Trachycarpus fortunei is damaged in such cases.

Both plants lose their foliage in -13°C (8,5°F) and die without any better protection at -17°C (1,5°F). However people grow them in central Europe in areas, where the annual minimums are about -20°C. No problems there, but they are forced to grow the palms protected and can't afford not to protect them in the winter.

Good luck boys!

Jack, it is a matter of opinion as far as a waggie being the least beautiful palm!!! In mine and many others that grow all types of Trachys, that the waggie is a very desirable palm because of its growth habit. I now have 5 different types of trachycarpus and the waggie is by far the most beautiful in my opinion. As far as losing foliage in 8,5F, I have two fortuneii's that are about 6' of trunk each and had only minor leaf damage this past winter and we saw 6F twice with several others in the single digits. They went one span of over 48 hours of below freezing too. And that was with No protection at all!!! I believe they are alot hardier than folks want to give them credit for...

Jack Daw · 08-07-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy4ut

Jack, it is a matter of opinion as far as a waggie being the least beautiful palm!!! In mine and many others that grow all types of Trachys, that the waggie is a very desirable palm because of its growth habit. I now have 5 different types of trachycarpus and the waggie is by far the most beautiful in my opinion. As far as losing foliage in 8,5F, I have two fortuneii's that are about 6' of trunk each and had only minor leaf damage this past winter and we saw 6F twice with several others in the single digits. They went one span of over 48 hours of below freezing too. And that was with No protection at all!!! I believe they are alot hardier than folks want to give them credit for...

Sorry, didn't mean it like that. I didn't say it was ugly, but that from all the Tr. the least appealing to me.

I like growing impossible and this one's ideal for my climate.

Temps? It also depends. Were they covered with snow? Here the worst frosts are almost exclusively without a snowfleck anywhere. Damn. We lose even peaches to such frosts.
In general, the problem here is that it snows, melts down, freezes, melts down, freezes, ... Still this circle and the plants don't like it either. Sometimes the temps go up in January to 15°C during the day and about 5°C in the night (for a week!) and the plants wake up (even some flowers). All of them. Apples, peaches .. they put the blossoms on (usually only peaches, apples wait longer) and then bang, another frost waves. And so we lose the plants here, not because of the frosts, but because of the conditions they go through. It's crazy this continental climate.

So this might be the difference.

Sorry, I didn't really mean to be offensive or anything, it's jsut that that's my experience and I wanted to share it.

It's better to give an extra protection even if it is not needed, than to lose the palm...

Randy4ut · 08-07-2009, 08:01 PM

I agree with the extra protection to save a palm. I have had butia capitata in ground for 3 and 4 years and protect them fairly well each year. We have not had more than a dusting of snow for the past 5+ years where I live but have plenty of sleet and COLD rain every winter which is so hard on them... I figured that my largest trachys were grown enough to go without any protection, but wish I would have at least wrapped them in frost cloth during the worst of the cold and wet. Live and learn!!! No hard feelings and can appreciate other's preferences. If everyone liked the same thing, what a boring place this world would be, huh?!?!?!?! Take care and BTW, congrats on the new responsibilities!!! Sure you will do a good and fair job!!!

08-07-2009, 04:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
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08-07-2009, 04:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
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saltydad saltydad's Photo Gallery Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA Find me on the map! Zone: 7a Name: Howard Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 4,552 BananaBucks : 183,316 Feedback: 2 / 100% Said "Thanks" 14,712 Times Was Thanked 4,662 Times in 1,778 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 824 Times	Re: Santa came to TN via California!!!! WAGGIES!!! Randy- those waggies are great looking! Congrats! __________________ Men In Nursing- "A Few Good Men" "Gardening is the purest of human pleasures." - Francis Bacon "If by a liberal, they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind; someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions; someone who cares about the welfare of the people, their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, their civil liberties; someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicion that grips us; that is what they meant by a liberal, I am proud to be a liberal." John F. Kennedy, September, 1960 http://flickr.com/photos/saltydad/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/saltydad http://s751.photobucket.com/albums/xx151/saltydad/

08-07-2009, 08:01 PM	#8 (permalink)
Randy4ut Randy4ut's Photo Gallery Find me on the map! Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,387 BananaBucks : 86,877 Feedback: 23 / 100% Said "Thanks" 1,051 Times Was Thanked 1,324 Times in 444 Posts Said "Welcome to Bananas" 87 Times	Re: Santa came to TN via California!!!! WAGGIES!!! I agree with the extra protection to save a palm. I have had butia capitata in ground for 3 and 4 years and protect them fairly well each year. We have not had more than a dusting of snow for the past 5+ years where I live but have plenty of sleet and COLD rain every winter which is so hard on them... I figured that my largest trachys were grown enough to go without any protection, but wish I would have at least wrapped them in frost cloth during the worst of the cold and wet. Live and learn!!! No hard feelings and can appreciate other's preferences. If everyone liked the same thing, what a boring place this world would be, huh?!?!?!?! Take care and BTW, congrats on the new responsibilities!!! Sure you will do a good and fair job!!! __________________

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