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09-02-2007, 07:44 PM | #1 (permalink) |
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Wild Palms
Anyone know where I can dig up some wild palms. Texas maybe? Want somethin hardy to Z6. Needle palm or Sabal Minors. Would like to try bringing some back to Kansas.:2201:
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09-02-2007, 08:04 PM | #2 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Hello!
Where at in Kansas are you located? There are a few palm growers in this state that germinate seed that should be willing to sell/trade/give you something.
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09-02-2007, 08:16 PM | #3 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
I'm in the Southeast corner of the state. What i'm wantin to do is to dig up some wild ones with some heighth since they grow so slow. If I could dig a few that are 3-5 ft tall I'd bring em back and plant em here. I have a sabal minor I bought that is 7 years old and only is only 20 in. high. There is a guy in a local town who travels south somewhere and brings them back but I don't know him. I know it can be done I just don't know where to go.
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09-03-2007, 07:42 AM | #4 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Tropicsman was telling me about another guy in Wichita that takes a semitrailer to Texas every year and brings back palms for his year. He goes to a nursery, I believe. The Wichita Eagle did a story on him one year, you might beable to find it. Good luck in your search either way hopefully someone else can be of more help.
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09-03-2007, 08:00 AM | #5 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
It is my understanding that in Florida, you have to have a license to remove palms from their native habitat... You should find a reputable nursery and purchase your palms from them. If everyone went out and just dug palms from the wild... I hope you see my point!!! I know you can purchase nice sized specimens, especially needles and minors for reasonable prices... I know needles are becoming more and more scarce in native habitat... Enough said, this just gets under my skin!!!!
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09-03-2007, 08:55 AM | #6 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
I'd have to agree with Randy. Virginia Beach is a tourist town. It is built on tourism and so they have tried to make it look tropical. (HA) They bring in trees from either nurseries that are just stupid, or (I'm sure) some people take them from the wild. The trees they bring in are not hardy here. You go down a boulevard and see 20 or 30 palms trees with maybe one leaf, or none at all. Just dead- which is probably what you'll get if you get one from the wild.
Your best bet and my best bet if I ever wanted to get another palm is a nice Trachycarpus Fortunei. Yes, it won't be 12 feet tall already, but you cannot expect to just go and pluck one from nature and plant it. Just get a medium sized one from a nice nursery either online or local, and let it grow out. You'll be much happier with a tree that you grew yourself than with a tree that you took from the wild and didn't grow it. Later Taylor |
09-03-2007, 09:33 AM | #7 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Even though the needle and minor are the hardiest palms and they will do fine in your area, they still are slow growers... The minor will be especially hard to remove from the wild because of the underground trunk... Here is an excerpt from the Southeastern Palm Socities website:
Other notes: Old plants develop a deep root system that makes them difficult to move, a useful fact to remember before planting. Wild plants have extremely deep roots that usually make them not worth the trouble of moving. Easily grown from seed. The needle, like I said is to the point of endangerment, and should be left alone... Again, another excerpt from the SE Palm Society: Native habitat: River flood plains of the Southeast, mostly below the fall line. Often grows under hardwood trees where the water doesn't flood too deeply in winter. Often grows over limestone. Rare to the point of endangerment. Here is a good reference read for anyone interested... http://pubs.caes.uga.edu/caespubs/ho...html#Varieties I don't mean to be on a soapbox here, but I truly think that palms should be enjoyed in their native habitat and if anyone wants one in their landscape, they should buy them from someone that has grown them from seed or gotten them from someone that has... There are alot of great palm mailorder nurseries out there, and if anyone is interested, let me know and I can hook you up... BTW, I do have them growing in my landscape, over 30, but they were all purchased from a reputable source. Yes, they are small, that is why I compliment them with other tropicals like nanners... Okay, I'll quit now!!!! (SORRY, to anyone that I may have offended) |
09-03-2007, 12:37 PM | #8 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
First off, I seem to have offended someone by suggesting "taking from the wild" but how do you think our gardens got so beautiful?? Someone went out in the wild and snatched one up and brought it home, cloned it and stuck it on the market. I do not feel it is any more wrong for me to do it than a nursery too. So get some boxes and start shipping things back to their origin. Bye bye nana's, Cause they are not native to N. America. Ship all of your Hostas back to Asia and all of your other(non-native plants) back to where they came from, if you know. I do agree that when a plant is near extinction it is best left alone and that is the type of info. I like to know. But when they are a dime a dozen I don't see a problem. Come to Kansas and I'll load you up a ton of Sunflowers, Coneflowers, or Black Eyed Susans but I bet you've probably got some already. Basically the U.S. has become a melting pot for plants and it's gardener like us who have made it that way. Its a little late to go back now and honestly, who would want to??! The basic argument is that things should be left in their natural habitat. So getting it from a nursery makes it O.K.? Buying seeds, O.K.? No matter how you look at it you are moving plants out of their origin for your own benefit. I guess what really burns me is that this is a banana site. I bet 80% or more of the people on this site are not in an area that has native bananas. You don't see many people from China asking why their Chinese yellow Banana isn't flowering. They walk right by them as I do with my Oak tree's. I think its great that their are hosta's in Ohio, NANA'S IN TN., and Sunflowers in Texas. God put the plants here for us to use and enjoy. So if you are going to say it's wrong for me to do what everyone else has already done you better check YOUR garden. Not trying to be rude by anything I said just letting people know their is two sides to the story.
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09-03-2007, 02:31 PM | #9 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
I am sorry you were offended.
But just listen for a second please. Bananas and Hosta are tissue cultures (most times) and if not, they have a rhizome that if you take a pup of a Banana from the while or a section of rhizome from a Hosta, the rest of the plant is still there. Unaffected and left in the wild. Do you see any tissue cultured palms? No, or at least I haven't. That means that they took it from somewhere or grew it from seed. This also means that the original plant is gone. Now you said growing from seed was too slow, so you wanted to take from Texas or likewise (I believe thats what you said). Now you are contributing to this endangerment for your own Garden. God did put them here, but if it is gone...nobody else can enjoy it, and thats a little greedy, IMHO. My garden consists of Pups and tissue Cultures, and Hybrids(not even wild). None have been taken from the wild to the point of endangerment. Some, like you said have. AeAe (not getting Gabe into this, but he says) is rarely seen in Hawaii anymore. Why? People took them for they're own good or to try TC. But now people are getting them from pups or the ones they did take and i do not think that anyone that didn't go to Hawaii and snatch it should be ridiculed. I do not have AeAe, but I should not be ridiculed for having Ornata from a pup from a pup from a nursery who got them from a TC lab who got the original from another TC lab from maybe 1 pup from the wild, which left the mother intact, unlike taking a palm. Again like Randy said, If everyone took one... My 2 Cents. Thank you, that is all I have to say on this topic. Taylor |
09-03-2007, 04:13 PM | #10 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
I tried to dig up a sabal minor one time and it is backbreaking. The trunk grows down into the ground and the palm rarely survives when transplanted. Someone is developing some land near my work and an area full of sabal minors is being bulldozed. I was tempted to salvage some of them until I remembered the first time I tried it.
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09-03-2007, 04:53 PM | #11 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Taylor,
I think you have made some very valid points. Perhaps I should have considered the growth rate of a palm as a factor. I was not thinking of how long it will take for another plant to grow that size. I still stand my ground that in some cases it is ok to take something wild and bring it back home with you. I guess I got my butt chapped when I went to Colorado and asked around about taking back some wild flowers back and one person was just flat out rude. They are so abundant its sad, and drop hundreds of seeds. I don't really believe taking a couple of flowers is going to ruin the beuty of the state. Maybe you can suggest somewhere that I can get some palms with some heigth at a decent price. As far as the tissue culture arguement, my point was that a good % of the plants we have today were originally taken from the wild.
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09-03-2007, 05:41 PM | #12 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Nate,
Sorry I got on the ole soapbox, and I think enough has been said about this. If I may make a suggestion that may work to your benefit. With all the urbanization going on all around, you may be able to locate a construction site that has got some property that is going to be turned into some sort of commercial property and ask them if you could have the plants that will certainly be doomed anyway... I know several folks that have done that with great success. If you are still unable to locate something along those lines, and I know of a gentleman in Arkansas that sells palms, although smaller than what you are looking for that may be able to help you locate some larger specimens... Good luck in you venture and I truly hope you have success in finding what you are looking for, just not from the wild... Randy |
09-03-2007, 06:49 PM | #13 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
I have to agree with Randy!! I have worked on hundreds of construction sites.. A guy with a backhoe~~~ $20 or a case of beer..You would be amazed.....
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09-03-2007, 07:14 PM | #14 (permalink) | |||||
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Re: Wild Palms
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Besides, Sabal minor is very difficult to transplant once it is established in the ground. |
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09-03-2007, 07:53 PM | #15 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Here is an example :
We have a very rare fish here . It is a beautiful type of minnow found in a very small body of water . If one ( or a group ) were to mass produce this fish in aquariums it would probably survive in the wild . Folks could continue to reproduce this fish to supply all of the market demands . As it is now , the fish is being caught and illegally exported to europe in fairly large numbers . I tried to make a count of this fish 2 years ago and could not find it at all . If a cooperative were to follow procedures and introduce this fish to commercial production it would stand a fair chance . When folks take more than are being produced (in the wild , conditions do not facilitate mass production ) populations become exploited beyond repair . |
09-03-2007, 08:17 PM | #16 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Bigdog,
Appears I 've hit a sensitive spot with you. As far as an illeagle issue you might want to read my first post again. I said nothing about taking anything illeagelly and was hoping another reader could help me out and tell me how to go about it. It seems that you've twisted around a lot of what I said, using quotes (out of context) and wanting to argue more than help. Do you work for the local law enforcement? Talk to Taylor maybe he/she can coach you on how to help someone not attack them.
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09-03-2007, 09:44 PM | #17 (permalink) | ||
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Re: Wild Palms
Quote:
I'm not attacking you. I was just trying to break down your post into smaller segments and address them all. As far as your first post goes, you said "Anyone know where I can dig up some wild palms. Texas maybe? Want somethin hardy to Z6. Needle palm or Sabal Minors. Would like to try bringing some back to Kansas." All I'm basically saying is that you can't just go "dig up some wild palms." True, you never said anything about taking anything illegally! But you were sort of callous in the way you presented yourself. You also said, "but how do you think our gardens got so beautiful?? Someone went out in the wild and snatched one up and brought it home, cloned it and stuck it on the market. I do not feel it is any more wrong for me to do it than a nursery too." If a nursery "went out in the wild and snatched one up," they would be breaking the law also, and not a reputable nursery. Quote:
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09-04-2007, 04:34 AM | #18 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Natedogg,
Just outta curiousity how bigga palm you lookin' for? I know of a couple of places that will freight in large field grown (nursery grown) specimens for ya... you'll pay quite a bit for it but it is by far the best way to get a really large specimen without having to worry about whether or not it'll survive after you take the time to dig it, transport it... so on and so forth. I am not rich by any means but I am getting a larger specimen T. fortunei from Portland, OR next year some time... it is going to cost a couple of hundred all together but so far it is the only truely hassle free way of doing it that I have found. Or as someone else mentioned you might get lucky and find a property owner redoing the property that has one they don't want and then all you have to do is dig it and you are good. But, we are all here to learn from each other and non-verbal communication can be easily misinterpreted as hostility (Trust me I know). I don't think bigdog meant any malice by his comments, we just don't want to see one of our fellow 'bananaphiles' get into any hot water. -James- |
09-05-2007, 04:57 PM | #19 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Hey all,
This is a very hot topic! I believe it is very wrong to dig a rare palm from the wild such as a needle palm. These are vanishing so quickly because the animal (hypothesized to be a sloth) that distributed the seeds in the past is now extinct. The needle palm is such a beautiful shrubby palm with nice green leaves and typically lots of suckers. I would be ecstatic to see such a palm in the wild in Georgia or Florida. It would be a terrible crime to dig up a needle palm from a forest because: 1. it's an endangered species; 2. it is quite rare in the wild; 3. the animal that helps with the spread of the palm is extinct; 4. it spreads so slowly. Now, I know that several of these points are related, but they are all important nevertheless. Why try to dig up a wild palm such as the needle when they are readily available both online from numerous sources and at some local nurseries? It would be irresponsible not to purchase a seed grown specimen from a reputable source. I can give you about 5 good sources on where to buy a needle palm. Now, the issue of sabal minor. This palm is very abundant all over the southeast. Due to the abundance, I felt that I would not disturb the stand of palms in my area. I personally have tried to dig up sabal minors in the past down in southern Arkansas. When you try to dig one, you will see that it's almost an impossible feat. The roots go straight down into the muddy soil making it very, very difficult not to cut the roots on the palm. Any cut roots results in total root die-back, which puts the palm at major risk for death. I must say that the wild palms that I've dug did not survive. I would have been better off sprouting seeds or buying a sabal minor from a nursery. I have and will not dig up any more sabal minors because it just doesn't work; and I advise you to do the same. I would be happy to send you some native Arkansas sabal minor seeds this fall when I go down and collect some. Now, given that I tried to dig up native s. minors, I am helping nature (giving back) by spreading sabal minor seeds in the area to get a natural stand of them going. Yes, I took palms in the past and don't deny it, but I'm also giving back to nature what I have taken. I was going to do this from the start, and I think it's the responsible thing to do. Until seeing palms growing in their natural habitat, one can really not appreciate their beauty and gracefulness. Because of the threat to native palms, many people (including myself) do not give exact locations of the palms that we find. There's too much at risk for spreading such information on the internet. Bottom line: Don't attempt to dig s. minors or needle palms. Austin
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09-05-2007, 05:03 PM | #20 (permalink) |
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Re: Wild Palms
Very good post Austin. Also feel free to send some of those sabal m. seeds my way I would go get some my self but I hardly ever head to the south part of Oklahoma where they grow wild... I have been wanting to see some in the wild and take a few pics.
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