harveyc

As I said in my reply to Richard, the Heritage Foundation information I'm looking at is just the census data. Every site, even Wikipedia, includes a bias, but usually you can find some useful information there.

Greenspan is an interesting person to quote on this matter. His unsound monetary policies with free cash, (along with Congress pushing lenders to make more credit "available' to the poor and just plain crazy lending by lenders) is largely responsible for the recession we're in.

Sure Bush signed a bill from Congress that gave refunds to those that didn't pay taxes; it was the only way Democrats would approve it.

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sbl

Bush gave the refund to the poor because he knew they would spend it and stimulate the economy--unlike the money he gave to the rich who invested it in hedge funds that speculated on oil and derivatives.

The mortgage meltdown was caused by unscrupulous mortgage brokers that had no stake in the security of the mortgage. They lied about incomes to qualify people, lied to people or didn't tell then about the fact that the teaser rates used to qualify them would increase from 4 to 5 % in a couple years and then from 5 to 6% in a couple more. These brokers didn't care because they were just bundling the mortgages and selling them for use in derivatives. I know-- My neighbor is a real estate agent that deals only in foreclosed homes.

The real strength of this country has always been the middle class--a middle class that is shrinking and struggling while the rich keep getting richer. And you think they should pay half the tax rate that I do!

harveyc

sbl, you gave me a chuckle. I would guess that much less than 1% of the population invests in derivatives, etc. but you sure focus your attention on these. Most of the rich that received such a payment did not do anything different in their lives.

The bogus lending practices by some mortgage bankers certainly contributed to the problem, but consumers were idiots also. I may be buying a house at foreclosure next week and have been reviewing hundreds of foreclosures. The house I am interested was worth about $107,000 10 years ago but sold for $305,000 in 2005 and peaked in value at about $346,000 in 2006. I should be able to get it for quite a bit less than $100,000 today. This house should never have sold for anything close to $300,000. It's not just the rich that are greedy, everyone was chasing real estate hoping to get rich.

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sbl

I am not talking about the $600 "Tax Refund" that did go to the rich as well as those that did not make enough to pay income tax. Mine paid for about a month of gas for my truck.

I am talking about the 360 BILLION a yr Bush Tax Cut the is still going to the rich. You are right that the number of people investing in derivatives is small, hedge funds are limited to the very rich--billionaires for the most part, but they had a tremendous amount of money in the market--some estimates put it at 2 to 3 TRILLION dollars in 2007. And it was derivatives that brought down the likes of Leman Brothers and almost brought down AIG (because of the derivatives they insured) which the taxpayer now owns. And for all of this good that these nice rich people do they pay income tax at half the rate of the middle class on their "capital gains" and dividends.

Abnshrek

Well just think those supposedly Conservative Folk are talking about cutting more taxes after they push out the Dem Majority in the next round of elections. Remember its about greed not the people.. Even the Dem's are all about the greed just another segment of business & society which we live. The only person that's looking out for you is you, and maybe your tax man.. & maybe your attorney if you goto his church :^) lol

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I'm a Nannerhead :^)

Richard

Tea Party = White Fright.

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Back in business at plantsthatproduce.com

LilRaverBoi

*Thread closed at request of the original poster*

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BANANA RAVE!
Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top!
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Patty in Wisc

I was just ready to post what I wrote below & the thread got locked! I hate to do all this writing for no reason so I C&P'd it to post here. It is nothing offensive

I like this thread. I'm learning something, & I like to see others opinions. So nice to see that intelligent ppl can disagree & discuss an issue without name-calling & fighting!
Insurance:
Mike's health ins. just went up about $150 a month (to over $500.00)- & that's just for him! Never been in a hospital. Ins Co. says it's because he takes bld. pressure meds - that isn't covered!, so he got diff ins. I just heard on Nat'l news that H. ins. went up so much that ppl can't afford it. AND, the ins. Co's are making big profits, so why the big increase they asked? No answers yet.
Home Owners: I saw a show (60 minutes?) about houses along a coast that keep getting destroyed by hurricanes/storms, & the govrnment helps pay for damage. These are rich ppl that pay a lot for insurance, but so do ppl nearby that don't live on the shores or have damage done, but pay as much for ins (as SBL stated) to help cover those homes. Plus, govmnt helps them w/ $ for damage.
Taxes:
Harvey, you said "and I don't think people that don't pay income taxes should get "refunds"."
Please tell me how to get this money! LOL I get "earned income credit" but you only get it if you have EARNED income & it depends how much you make...the less you earn, the less you get & you have to make less than a certain amount per year -- like poverty level. I get that & SOME refunds of the taxes I paid all year - property tax & income tax.
If I can't show EARNED income, I get nothing.
Banks:
I'm a good example of banks cheating. I know my banker -he's now the big cheese there. I brought Mike to him for lower interest mortgage & Mike moved all his $ there into money market. 2 yrs ago, I applied for equiline. Banker Bob did interview & asked how much I make a yr. He knew I was not working except for helping Mike out on few jobs. I couldn't answer, so Bob said "$30,000?" & I said yeah, sounds good. So, I got $100,000 line of credit. So, for just over 2 yrs, been living off that while I remodeled my basment. I did pretty good that I only borrowed just over $20,000 in over 2 yrs - lived on it & bought materials. Of course, Mike helped out alot -labor & materials. I only have to pay interest monthly. But, they never shoulda gave me that line of credit as I didn't really have a job! My house is paid for so that helps a lot & now I get $700.00 a month for renting bsment apt.
As long as I'm spilling my guts out here LOL, I will say that I bought this house for $12,900 - when my son was 5. My Dad helped w/ down payment & I waitressed & worked in factories. The neighborhood is really cleaned up now & it's now Conservation District - not quite historic, but there are guidelines. With the remodeling I've done over the years, new sunroom addition, basement apt. etc, I've been told this house is worth well over $200,000 maybe 250.
Sorry if I derailed your thread Harvey.
Now, if only I could get the over $45,000 from my son's Dad for back child support!!!!!!

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Got a lite?
Patty




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Patty in Wisc has sadly passed away 9/05/11. We will miss you Patty.

Jack Daw

All I know about it, Patty:

Maybe all that had to be said, was said.

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Thnx to Marcel, Ante, Dr. Chiranjit Parmar and Francesco for the plants I've received.



Zeitgeist - Corporatocracy 101 (~2hrs)

Zeitgeist - Moving Forward (~2.5hrs)

LilRaverBoi

Yeah, I was asked by Harvey to close the thread. Pretty sure he felt the discussion had already peaked and had sufficiently covered the topic. From what I was told there weren't any hard feelings toward anyone, just wanted it to be closed. Don't mean to stifle your words, Patty, by any means. I'll merge this with the other thread.

Thanks for your understanding guys!

__________________
BANANA RAVE!
Feel the beat from start to stop, dancin' and movin' from bottom to top!
lilraverboi@genxglow.com
RIP Tog Tan. We love you and will always remember you!
I'm Bryan with a Y! There is no 'I' in BRYAN!