harveyc

It seems to be in fad to condemn and boycott Arizona lately. Seems silly to me when the USA needs to be focusing more on securing the border. Here are a couple of news segments from Atlanta worth watching:

Channel 2 Investigates U.S. Border Security Part 1 - Video - WSB Atlanta

Channel 2 Investigates U.S. Border Security Part 2 - Video - WSB Atlanta

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Abnshrek

That was pretty enlightening :^)

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Patty in Wisc

I for one, like the AZ governors decision. I don't know why ppl are reacting so strongly...maybe cuz they don't have the illegals camping in their backyards.

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harveyc

I'm most concerned about the "OTMs" (Other Than Mexicans) mentioned in the videos. Working for the Border Patrol must be one frustrating and scary job!

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Jack Daw

Mr. Governor has funny eyes.

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saltydad

QFT (Quoted For Truth)

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Scuba_Dave

Arizona may just boycott LA:
LA receives 25% of its power from Arizona

CoryS

Arizona is one of the most beautiful states in the nation. It has so many attractive features that I, for one, am very happy they've added another; the governor.
Btw, thanks much for the links and information.

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john_ny

Jack - Which governor are you refering to? The one in Arizona is a woman.

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D.C._Palms_N_Sports_Fan

As a rather FAR LEFT liberal (progressive might be a better word actually) I have to say this issue does conflict me. On the one hand I strongly disagree with the racial profiling that could take place under AZ's newly adopted law. On the other hand, I also do not want people here illegally, using up my country's resources, infrastructure...etc without giving anything back. (IE Taxes)

The federal government needs to really step it up on the control of the border with Mexico, and the Mexican government does not seem to really care much about stopping things on their side. The true bottom line of all of this to me is that we need massive immigration reform, and we need it NOW. I'm all for allowing good, otherwise crime free people to come here, but I want it done LEGALLY. That said, I think the United States has, and is doing a TERRIBLE job and allowing people to come here legally, tying them up in so much red tape that it is almost impossible to do. If someone is caught, give them a real shot at becoming legal, fine them for all of the taxes they should have paid, and give them a path that does not take 20 years to become legal.

Oh, and just because someone's child is born here, does NOT in my mind give them an automatic pass to citizenship. I know many liberals who very much disagree with me, but nothing can change my mind on that. There are too many people who come here, get pregnant solely to gain citizenship, then do nothing but take take take from our country.

I know that sounds fairly conservative in terms of politics, but to me it just seems FAIR. Again, please do not mistake me for a conservative, as I assure you I am anything BUT. I usually make most democrats seem conservative on most things.

I hope this issue gets MUCH more attention, and gets fixed sooner rather than later, but, sadly, with the mess that is in the Gulf of Mexico right now, I think most other things are going to take a back seat to that, and to this country's energy issues / policies.

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harveyc

KJ, I don't see anything particularly liberal or conservative in your comments. Politically, I'm fairly conservative and don't find anything in your comments that I disagree with.

I don't think there is anything inherent in the AZ law that would lead to racial profiling. I think that potential problem can exist with or without the law and folks just throw that out as a reason to argue against it.

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D.C._Palms_N_Sports_Fan

Well, I dont really see my position as "conservative" or "liberal" either. To me it is more of a "National" issue, rather than a liberal / conservative issue. I look at it like this: I wouldn't go into another country, and EXPECT them to adapt to me, my culture...etc. Nor would I EXPECT them to support me in any way. I would do my best to "assimilate" as much as one can do that without giving up their own cultural background, and I would also ensure that if I was going to stay, that I did so legally, and contributed to their society / country, the way they expect their citizens to do so. To me it is about having respect for your host country, or the country you have "adopted" as your home. I suppose that I am living proof that things are not as black and white as many on either side (left or right) make them out to be.

That said, I am not for ANY so called law that questions anyone about anything because of "how they look". that to me is very dangerous water in which to tread.

That said.... I have not voted republican in my life EVER, and probably never will. That party espouses many many things that I 100% disagree with and despise. I do not always agree with the Democrats either, but they are usually FAR FAR closer to my way of thinking, but sometimes even they are too conservative for me.

I suppose you could say to me, since we basically only have a two party system in our country, that the lesser of the two evils to me is the LEFT.

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DaveE

I worked the US / Mexico Border in Arizona and Texas, so I understand the problems they face with this issue and agree that the border needs to be secured ASAP.


I wish people would understand that this is not a racial issue and quit trying to make it one.



Just for the record; I am in favor of legal immigration for good, law abiding people that want to become Americans.

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D.C._Palms_N_Sports_Fan

I have to agree. Though I think my post reflects that agreement.

I also know, that unless one lives or works on or near the border, that we really cannot comprehend the problems we face down there with Mexico. I really do try to understand why we have such problems down there, yet almost no problems with Canada. Perhaps it is because Mexico at least in parts is more third world? My uncle (R.I.P.) was a U.S. Marshall and was stationed in El Paso, TX with his family for a while. They hated it there for multiple reasons, but one of those reasons was all of the problems that city faces being a border city.

Though I do not live in a border state, I can assure y ou the problems are much broader. They day laborer lines in some parts of the D.C. area every morning are just INCREDIBLE.

Further, I have some personal experience with it. Until a year ago I lived in what was a nice apartment complex when I moved in. Mostly middle class, working younger professionals, with some elderly thrown in. Decent racial mix, probably 60% white, and the rest split evenly between El Salvadorean / Mexican and African Americans. I lived there for two years. about 1 year and 4 months in there was a change in management. All of the sudden the entire complex was turning almost all El Salvadorean. Two of my neighbors were kicked out because they complained about problems with toilets that went unrepaired for months and the new manager blamed THEM and forced them out. The new manager was a El Salvadorean. I was told by one of my neighbors that was thrown out that when she complained about her toilet malfunctioning that nothing was done. One night when she was not home it malfunctioned and flooded her bathroom and that of the apt below. She was evicted for not properly caring for her unit. During a heated exchange with the manager, she was told on no uncertain terms that she was to leave because the manager "had people that needed a place to live".

In my final 8 months there ( the time that the new manager took over) the problems mounted. Trash went uncollected, problems with water and general maintenance. More and more El Salvadoreans were moving in, and most of them were illegal. I know this because the poor lone maintenance guy was also El Salvadorean and he told me this. Most of them could not read or write their own language, let alone english, so the bi lingual signs often went ignored. Basically everyone I knew there, and then some left within 6 months including me. The loitering problems became very bad. THere were some guys sleeping in the hall ways. People were urinating and even defecating in the laundry rooms. The complex basically refused to install locking exterior doors on the buildings, thus leading to even more problems. Those that moved in brought there friends and extended families, and some units which were to hold no more than 4 people were now holding 10 or more. My friend in the building next to me had 12 people living in a small two bedroom next to her. In less than 8 months the complex had about 90 % turnover. All of the good hard working young professionals left because of how bad things got. Since then it has stayed the same. They have been fined by the city numerous times for code violations ranging from loitering, to nuisance garbage, litter, to failure to maintain buildings...etc. THere have also been ALOT more calls to police to come to that complex. I know all of this because I have a friend who owns a house across the street from it. The only thing that seems to have gotten better is the large groups of people "hanging out" outside drinking. That used to occur nightly very close to outside of my apartment, and often would exceed 20+ people, and they would leave behind all kinds of garbage. I one time called the cops because of the noise and there were bottles being broken. It blew my mind to see such a large group of people, many of them adults, running from the cops like they were 15 year old s that did something wrong.

Anyway, my point in telling that little story was to illustrate that it happens far away from the border as well, and also to give my first hand experience in watching a nice place that I lived, turn into a pile of steaming dung. I really do not understand what it is. It is like those people just do not care about anything at all. Perhaps it is cultural? Maybe they are so used to living in such awful conditions that they really do not know any other way to live? I really do not have the answer. It made me sad to see, and did somewhat change my perspective on things of that nature. I have told many of my hispanic friends that story, and they all basically said the same things. That they were likely poor people who came here illegally, are poor, and came from much worse enviornments, and only care about getting money to send home, and care nothing for where they live, or even this country. Sad.. just sad. Those are the kinds of people I DO NOT want here, and fully support sending back to where they came from IF they are not going to respect our country, culture, and not pay their dues by being law abiding LEGAL citizens.

I was fairly surprised to hear that many of my hispanic friends, including some who are here on work visa, pretty much agree with me and most Americans views on such things. Some of them were even EMBARRASSED and said that that is NOT how most live where they come from. Even the maintenance man who was himself El Salvadoran told me that is not how most live down there, and that he was embarrassed by them and that they were lazy and did not want to really work, much less do so legally. He even told me that he tries to explain to them how things are here but usually they just blow it off and do not really want to hear it.

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Patty in Wisc

Remember when Castro let Cubans come here by the boatful? They were prisoners & ppl from their insane asylums. I think we (Pres. Carter?) sent most back.
My grandparents came off the boat at Ellis Island from Europe & went right to work & learned English-- no free money. My Grandma was proud to put up the American flag for the holidays & considered herself lucky to be here...and glad to pay taxes.

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momoese

I'm in total agreement with booting anyone who's not legal and I also totally disagree with giving citizenship to babies born here, but I do see how this could legalize racial profiling and if I were a legal citizen with darker skin than I have now I'd be pretty pissed if the police started harassing me, possibly over and over for absolutely no reason other than my skin color. What a nightmare that would be!

Jack Daw

I find that really difficult to imagine. Well, maybe the taxes were lower then. We have maybe half the taxes you have over there, yet it's pretty much and people are reluctant to pay even that (the first government to raise taxes here would be head of the state for the last time... I think a revolution would come too).

Also, no need to say I watch your carbon tax progress. That's an interesting topic too. Pollutants, right.

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CoryS

I agree that the kids born here, from illegal immigrants, should not be given automatic citizenship. It just gives people, who aren't really very American, an excuse to stay. If somebody really doesn't like the country they are from enough to stay, they need to go to a country that they can care about. But if that's not why they're moving here then they should not be allowed to stay. As for the other issue, it is unfair to judge people because of their accent or skin color. But I suppose I'd have to dye myself, and learn to talk different, to really know what that's like. But even if they don't change the laws and still let illegals in, that still won't change how prejudice people will treat them [especially the ones in authority]. And I definitely agree with D. C.. People who don't really want to be Americans will just consume and have no respect for our country.
Carbon taxes?! LOL! Now the rich companies can pay to pollute.

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Abnshrek

I say keep them out and ship them back even with their children born here. They weren't legal, and so their kids aren't either. I'm all for legal immigration, and not for illegal immigration that helps terrorists infiltrate our borders. As far as profiling goes the better they speak English the better off they shall be. :^)

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harveyc

I don't see how the Arizona law could be construed as condoning racial profiling. It specifically prohibited it. In addition, folks would only be asked for proof of citizenship if they were detained by law enforcement for another reason to begin with. If racial profiling might take place, it would take place with or without the new AZ law.

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